The two-hour meeting, which includded New Line Cinema boss Toby Emmerich, ended with no resolution to the Hobbit standoff.
Following the meeting, Prime Minister John Key confirmed there would be more discussions overnight and tomorrow before a decision on whether the movie would be filmed here.
He reiterated that industrial issues had been the major concern of the studios but confirmed for the first time that the studio was also seeking a bigger sweetener from taxpayers.
But Mr Key said the government would not get into a bidding war and the gap between what New Zealand and other countries were offering was more than just tens of millions of dollars.
Key’s public position doesn’t make a lotta sense to me here: if he refuses to ‘get into a bidding war’ and Warners walks after demanding tax breaks then he wears this, not the unions. The government has had the time of their lives stressing the importance of the movie to the local film industry in the wake of the industrial dispute – now they’re quibbling over tax thresholds?
(I had to learn about this from the web sites because the TV news journalists were too busy doing live crosses to attend the PM’s press gaggle.)
bidding war means: we offer 25%, Ireland offers 26%, Bulgaria offers 27%… It’s hardly a quibble.
we’re not in a very good position thanks to the unions.
Comment by NeilM — October 26, 2010 @ 6:45 pm
Keys position is entirely in line with a negotiation, you don’t go in with your trousers down.
Whatever the outcome Labour loses it is a question of how much.
Labours nightmare is NZ losing the film after Key’s makes every reasonable effort to keep the film.
Comment by leon — October 26, 2010 @ 6:51 pm
I wonder if we’re seeing the ‘smiling assassin’ side of Key – that he’s calculated that Warners has already invested too much into producing in New Zealand to pull out now that the industrial dispute is resolved.
Comment by danylmc — October 26, 2010 @ 6:52 pm
Labour’s nightmare would be having some one much like Whipp saying exactly the same things fronting on this issue.
Comment by NeilM — October 26, 2010 @ 6:53 pm
Whatever the outcome Labour loses it is a question of how much.
Not any more. If Warners walks away after Key fails to negotiate a tax break then Key loses and Labour wins, big time.
Comment by danylmc — October 26, 2010 @ 6:53 pm
I wonder..
he’s milking this forsure
Comment by NeilM — October 26, 2010 @ 6:54 pm
Me thinks that he is milking this too
Comment by max — October 26, 2010 @ 6:56 pm
such a large cow, such large uddders generously fed by an Australian mafia, some incompetent local unonists and the NZ Labour Party.
Comment by NeilM — October 26, 2010 @ 6:59 pm
Well obviously you can’t read Key-speak.
“Not getting into a bidding war” means not getting into a bidding war against another country, like Ireland at 28%. But might bump up our 15% a bit. And did I mention that the movie was all go, but now they can’t trust promises from the CTU? Yes, that’s right, we need more grovelling from Helen Kelly over the next few days. It’s touch and go you see. Did I mention that the unions support the Labour Party?
Comment by Pat — October 26, 2010 @ 7:02 pm
Its relative Danyl, if by winning you mean Labour claws back some of the massive support loses they have incurred over the week then yes
Comment by leon — October 26, 2010 @ 7:13 pm
what’s Gillard saying to Goff – if you love Whipp that much why don’t you do us both a favour and keep him.
Comment by NeilM — October 26, 2010 @ 7:22 pm
I wonder if Warners saw the ‘save the hobbit’ rallies, realised there’s public pressure on the Government to keep The Hobbit here, and is banking on that to squeeze a few million more out of NZ’s coffers.
Comment by Ataahua — October 26, 2010 @ 7:24 pm
To be fair to Warners, the actors promising that there won’t be strike disruptions, are the same actors that said “There was never a boycott” and “We never asked for a collective agreement”. So forgive them for thinking that NZAE are full of shit.
Comment by Pat — October 26, 2010 @ 7:28 pm
I wonder if Warners saw the ‘save the hobbit’ rallies, realised there’s public pressure on the Government to keep The Hobbit here, and is banking on that to squeeze a few million more out of NZ’s coffers.
This +1
if he refuses to ‘get into a bidding war’ and Warners walks after demanding tax breaks then he wears this, not the unions
Other than unionists, I can’t think of many groups the elecorate might like less than foreign corporate-types. Especially Americans.
If we lose the movie, Key plays “I’m not going to prostitute New Zealand for a bunch of Hollywood posers…”
Comment by Phil — October 26, 2010 @ 7:36 pm
Ataahua’s comment is surely correct.
For guys who start an average working day by kneeing the Terminator in the balls, these “negotiations” must be like a holiday, a bit of R & R in Suckersville.
Comment by sammy — October 26, 2010 @ 8:05 pm
I wonder if Warners saw the ‘save the hobbit’ rallies, realised there’s public pressure on the Government to keep The Hobbit here, and is banking on that to squeeze a few million more out of NZ’s coffers.
Well, yeah. Rallies are for the purpose of influencing governments – mega-rich corporations couldn’t give a flying fuck about rallies. So, the only people those marches put pressure on are Brownlee and Key. The Warners execs must be well chuffed with them.
Comment by Psycho Milt — October 26, 2010 @ 8:12 pm
Key is all over the map on this, this morning it was ‘I got a good mate at Warners’ end run round the unions. Then he refuses an interview on morning report for the billionth time to have a presser to say he would consider the tax incentives, then by afternoon tea ‘ its ‘not a bidding war, people’..Brownelee IV and Dipton say the tax is off the table, preznit key says it kind of is 50/50 ish..
Warners have sent out ten people, thats some frickin arm wresting and dick measuring…Or a lame tour of Hobbiton.
Today Key was sending in the A-Team: Also at the meeting were Economic Development Minister Gerry Brownlee, Transport Minister Steven Joyce, and Arts, Heritage and Culture Minister Chris Finlayson.
Dog help us…
Key maybe showing his ‘deal making’ mad skillz but it all looks messy and eventually expensive for most of NZ who really don’t give a sh*t.
Comment by andy (the other one) — October 26, 2010 @ 8:17 pm
“mega-rich corporations couldn’t give a flying fuck about rallies.”
The whole culture clash here has been laughable, really.
NZ: “Oh, we really love you, Warner Bros!”
WBL “Who ordered the whore?”
Comment by sammy — October 26, 2010 @ 8:20 pm
@Sammy, dealing with suckers is hosting a delegation of Labour troughers in hollywood. Studios don’t jet teams of big boys to the sth hem wopwops for a sucker-fest. Warners have what, a hungy $mn committed already and significant schedule constraints to make next years holiday season for pay back on the thick end of a $bn investment, so they obviously aren’t playing pattycake.
Comment by leon — October 26, 2010 @ 8:22 pm
“dealing with suckers is hosting a delegation of Labour troughers in hollywood.”
How did that work out again?
Comment by sammy — October 26, 2010 @ 8:24 pm
Actually I think I see Key’s position: now that there is zero chance of an industrial dispute (they wouldn’t dare), Warners have little reason to move their production. It would mean a write-off of their investments in the NZ based shoot and a significant delay in relocating somewhere else. So maybe Key figures he can afford to cold-shoulder their requests for a tax break and play up the possibility that he’s resigned to the production going overseas.
Comment by danylmc — October 26, 2010 @ 8:24 pm
@sammy, with the CTU not making complete arses out of themselves and the labour party. Quite convenient the CTU staying muzzled when Dear Leader was in power eh.
Comment by leon — October 26, 2010 @ 8:28 pm
I thought the critical thing Key has said.. and he’s said it several times, is the long term relationship with Warners, and by extension US movie makers and funders.
To me, that opens up a possible longer term “look through” the Hobbit films to the future of the NZ film industry. So yes, a look at the subsidies, and a look at legislation, and maybe a look at some other commercial possibilities to be explored.
JC
Comment by JC — October 26, 2010 @ 8:31 pm
Trevor Mallard had a dig at Key, ‘Labour sent delegations to Hollywood x2 times a year to make sure things went smoothly. Keys’ relaxed management style (read oh f&^k this governmenting is actually difficult) has put us in this situation.
Simple and effective blow as an opposition, rinse repeat.
This is bad for Phil Goff.
Comment by andy (the other one) — October 26, 2010 @ 8:35 pm
The 15% will move, openly or by the back door.
The secrecy is buying time to flossie it up to look good.
No wonder WBL are out here.
Thanks to local union action WBL get to extract extra tax breaks.
Sigh. WBL were always going to shoot here.
Comment by peterlepaysan — October 26, 2010 @ 8:42 pm
Trevor Mallard is a liar.
What ever his fantasies about mixing it with important people in LA, Warners were going to make the Hobbit in NZ under the tax arrangements that the Clark govt put in place.
Until, that is, the Labour and the unions decided on a spot of industrial sabotage.
Comment by NeilM — October 26, 2010 @ 8:44 pm
“Labour and the unions decided on a spot of industrial sabotage.”
As you know perfectly well that Labour did nothing of the kind, why do you pretend that they did, Neil?
Comment by sammy — October 26, 2010 @ 8:48 pm
Keys’ relaxed management style … has put us in this situation.
If it’s a straight fight between ‘relaxed management style’ and ‘rabid unions’ for the hearts and minds of the electorate…
…then this is bad for Phil Goff.
Comment by Phil — October 26, 2010 @ 8:52 pm
10 execs? Perhaps they’re planning to do a Randy Quaid and claim refugee status. How many suitcases did they have?
Comment by Bea — October 26, 2010 @ 8:52 pm
“Key is all over the map on this, this morning it was ‘I got a good mate at Warners’ end run round the unions.”
I read that as Key getting out front of the usual conspiracy theory that he had something to gain from the inevitable revelation that he had a prior connection, whatever outcomes are achieved.
And I also read some significance into the amazingly open way he is conducting these discussions.
However things go he’s immunised the Govt from shonky deal making in back rooms.
JC
Comment by JC — October 26, 2010 @ 8:53 pm
@NeilM
Trevor Mallard is a liar…….Until, that is, the Labour
and the unionsdecided on a spot of industrial sabotage…..Drinking and blog commenting is fun but, WTF?
Comment by andy (the other one) — October 26, 2010 @ 8:57 pm
I’m not sure if I buy the idea that this is Key’s smiling assassin technique, and I think peterlepaysan is on the money. As far as I can tell, Warners are in complete control of the negotiations. Even if Warners has no intention of moving production, any chump outfit negotiating would now be using Key and the general public’s scapegoating of the unions to negotiate some much sweeter deals when it comes to tax breaks, and Key’s in no real position to say no given how much he has staked on keeping the Hobbit here. Even if the whole dispute was only ever originally about unions, Warners are now in a position to easily save themselves a tens of millions of dollars through a bit of brinkmanship.
Comment by dave — October 26, 2010 @ 9:03 pm
thinking about Key saying he’ll change labour laws…
If we were an African country or central American one and some American company came in and got the govt to change labour laws to give it special treatment, what do you think the reaction of most observers would be? Sounds a bit like Guatamala in the 50s
Comment by insider — October 26, 2010 @ 9:05 pm
And I also read some significance into the amazingly open way he is conducting these discussions.
However things go he’s immunised the Govt from shonky deal making in back rooms.
NZ today learns Key has good mate at Warner Bros two weeks into major dispute over $500million dollar production of ‘the Hobbit’..Its 50/50 really.
Conversely its a John Key ‘tranzrail shares’ moment..
Not one single player in this is coming out looking good, all this liberal acting union bitchin, Warners execs being chauffeured in Crown limos and government whining while real New Zealanders are struggling. Way to cover yourselves in glory guys.
Comment by andy (the other one) — October 26, 2010 @ 9:07 pm
Or lose 100mn and fuck their schedule for xmas ’11.
I read this as the beginning of a massive bloodletting amongst the various bickering factions of Labour.
Comment by leon — October 26, 2010 @ 9:08 pm
“…while real New Zealanders are struggling.”
Real New Zealanders who are also film technicians are gonna be really fucking struggling if Warners like the look of those empty Harry Potter studios or big Irish tax breaks.
It’s one thing for unions to play chicken with Anne Tolley – everyone just stands on the sidelines and laughs. Its another thing for unions to play chicken with the blokes who can underwrite the NZ film industry for the next 2 years.
Comment by Pat — October 26, 2010 @ 9:15 pm
Anyone else clock that plonker phipps or whipps or whatever it’s name is on 1news? What a cock.
Comment by leon — October 26, 2010 @ 9:23 pm
The Warner execs must be sitting in their hotel a little incredulous I suspect.
“We had some union issues and suddenly people are marching in the street and the entire senior Cabinet showed up at a meeting to see what they can whore their country for. This wouldn’t have even made Variety back home – I love the Third World!”
Comment by garethw — October 26, 2010 @ 9:35 pm
A move to the UK or Ireland, hardly, both countries are unionised to the eyeballs.
Comment by carlie — October 26, 2010 @ 9:43 pm
This is bad for New Zealand.
Comment by TBwood — October 26, 2010 @ 9:54 pm
This whole forelock tugging by Key makes me sick. It’s made us look like prostitutes to corporate power once more….prostrating ourselves before the scumbags whocall us “Mexicans with cellphones”
Andrew P Nichols
Christchurch
Comment by Andrew Nichols — October 26, 2010 @ 10:31 pm
It’s not about more tax breaks; Warners set their budget years ago. Since then, our dollar has appreciated against the $USD. That’s the problem. They can’t make it a currency issue because of a certain Prime Minister. I agree with the commenet above: that Warners have already invested enough here so it won’t go.
My pick is legislation to overrule the Supreme Court decision on the independent contractor/employee case from LOTR. The legislation will be finite and will exist for the duration of the Hobbit only.
That’s what I’d do anyway. Politically and pragmatically it’s the best result.
Comment by Nick K — October 26, 2010 @ 10:59 pm
“Actually I think I see Key’s position: now that there is zero chance of an industrial dispute (they wouldn’t dare), Warners have little reason to move their production. It would mean a write-off of their investments in the NZ based shoot and a significant delay in relocating somewhere else. So maybe Key figures he can afford to cold-shoulder their requests for a tax break and play up the possibility that he’s resigned to the production going overseas.”
That was my impression of what the right thing to do would be, and how I read key. The public of NZ would never forgive any kind of industrial action by the actors on the hobbit, irrespective of the how valid the reason and the actors would never be willing to provoke it. So the industrial action, in a perverted kind of way, has actually made NZ more attractive. If WBL leave it will be because they wanted to anyway. But they won’t.
Comment by DT — October 26, 2010 @ 11:02 pm
Some thoughtful comments here,interesting prognostications, but slopping with bile from revisionists like Leon and NeilM et al. Pity.
Comment by Galeandra — October 26, 2010 @ 11:49 pm
For those who don’t think the dispute is making news in the US. This is on the front page in the top photo slot on the NYT website right now (11.27am Tuesday, NYC time): http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/26/business/media/26hobbit.html?_r=1&hp
Comment by hkham — October 27, 2010 @ 4:27 am
It is the unions, who are totally responsible for this dispute with Warners. How can you blame John Key. How dam rediculous.
Comment by Dianne — October 27, 2010 @ 4:51 am
So dam rediculous, vat no won’s dun ut eh? Does reading hurt your head Dianne?
Comment by Guy Smiley — October 27, 2010 @ 5:18 am
@galeandra, I’ll try to keep my bile from slopping if you stop being a revisionist by way of calling me a revisionist.
I presume you take umbrage at my comments that the CTU and by extension the Labour Party are donkey deep in the development of this dispute if not the inception. Thems the facts with no revision needed my lady of the forest.
Comment by leon — October 27, 2010 @ 6:37 am
Goodness! What sort of extension leon? Actually, perhaps leave that as one of your inside thoughts. Last time you gave full reign to what was on your “mind” you had the comment deleted.
Comment by Guy Smiley — October 27, 2010 @ 7:08 am
“top photo slot on the NYT website right now”
NYT? That still means no one in America is even aware that NZ exists.
John Key is a lizard. You can see the scales on his neck when the light is the right way. A deal will be done with the lizards from LA. The lizards can recognize each other straight away.
Don’t worry about it Smiley your vote cancels Dianne’s.
Comment by Simon — October 27, 2010 @ 7:21 am
Warner Brothers are now overplaying their hand; given that the public’s hyper-patriotic tea bagging moment has been largely emotional in it’s nature, the sight of our government kow-towing and forelock tugging to a foreign corporation could easily see an emotional sea change.
What next? Altering the RMA at the behest of BP? Oh, wait…
Comment by Sanctuary — October 27, 2010 @ 7:22 am
Sorry, I have to get some free market oppression’o'the workers work done Guy. Will let you know when I have time to walk you through extension.
Comment by leon — October 27, 2010 @ 7:30 am
Thems the facts…
I’m afraid the word “fact” has a generally-agreed meaning already – there isn’t really any room for a new meaning along the lines of “some idiocy of which a blog commenter has convinced himself.”
Comment by Psycho Milt — October 27, 2010 @ 7:53 am
The bottom line is that the unions and Labour have placed in jeopardy the livelihoods of workers in the film indusrty for an attack on the government.
It should never have been turned into a party political fight.
Comment by NeilM — October 27, 2010 @ 8:13 am
NeilM is now venturing into the fantasy of wish fufillment. As in “I wish this was the scenario, so I shall pretend that it is.”
Comment by Sanctuary — October 27, 2010 @ 8:23 am
Just curious, how do two movies constitute the livelihood of these film technicians? What have they been doing since the Lovely Bones wrapped up filming? How are they going to feed their families after shooting wraps on the Hobbit films?
If our exchange rate remains high, and our subsidies low, then even if the Hobbit remains here it seems unlikely that there’ll be any more productions attracted to our shores.
Comment by JB — October 27, 2010 @ 8:46 am
“NeilM is now venturing into the fantasy of wish fufillment.”
I suspect he’s just been given his talking points and told to stick to them every single time he “opines” on this one.
Comment by Guy Smiley — October 27, 2010 @ 8:58 am
I suspect he’s just been given his talking points…
pretty much Labour’s response to any criticism these days. Maybe, juts maybe Labour might consider that there are people who have genuine interest in issues, that have thought about them and are disgusted by the petty opportunism that Labour calls policy.
It must be alot easier to believe that most of the film indusrty gets its talkng points form Crosby-Textor. the Labour Party of Mallard.
Comment by NeilM — October 27, 2010 @ 9:12 am
“If our exchange rate remains high”
The exchange rates are a red herring. Ben the head lizard at the Fed Reserve will be printing gold. Some of this printed gold will no doubt find its way to the movie lizards.
The free market can see what the lizards are up to and the exchange rate adjusts accordingly. The lizard on team NZ John Key also knows this.
Comment by Simon — October 27, 2010 @ 9:13 am
The bottom line is that the unions and Labour have placed in jeopardy…
This is not so much a bottom line as merely something you happen to believe, for reasons which aren’t immediately obvious – unless “people on right-wing blogs are saying so” is a reason.
Comment by Psycho Milt — October 27, 2010 @ 9:20 am
If Labour and the unions want to assume that criticism of them is all just a RWC then so be it. I don’t really care anymore.
I doubt damaging peoples livelihoods is going to win them many friends. But that’s their lookout.
I belong to 2 unions, always have been union. always voted Labour. Their sneering attitude to any criticism really has not been pleasant to see.
Comment by NeilM — October 27, 2010 @ 9:31 am
“…I belong to 2 unions, always have been union. always voted Labour. T…”
Except your every post, without exception, consists of approvingly repeating right wing talking points. What are we to make of this? Are you a liar?
Comment by Sanctuary — October 27, 2010 @ 9:37 am
Are you a liar?
would that make things easier for you?
Comment by NeilM — October 27, 2010 @ 9:54 am
Not sneering, merely pointing out that there’s nothing in the events to suggest “the unions” or “Labour” were a threat to the film being made here. It’s continually repeated on right-wing blogs, without anything to substantiate it. If there is some basis for the assertion, I’ve yet to hear it.
The threat to the film being made here was the boycott called by the MEAA – “a” union certainly, but not “the unions,” any more than Warner Bros equates to “the employers.” The CTU was involved only in resolving the dispute, and Labour hasn’t been involved at all, as far as I can tell. If you want to make bald assertions about “the unions” and “Labour” being responsible for this mess, some explanation is required of how exactly that conclusion can be reached.
Comment by Psycho Milt — October 27, 2010 @ 10:07 am
“…would that make things easier for you?…”
We can only judge you on what you post. Based on that, your protestations that you are union member and a labour voter ring more than a little hollow – and that calls into question the honesty of your self-characterisation of your political orientation.
Sorry, but “concerned troll” is what springs immediately to my mind.
Comment by Sanctuary — October 27, 2010 @ 10:15 am
The CTU supported MEAA. the CTU have accused Jackson and Warners of a conspiracy. Labour have supported the CTU and made the same accusations.
The CTU looked at this and all they saw was another opportunity to attack the government. The problem was that the issues were not as simple as they believed. All the while they refuse to take responsibility.
I’m sick of having to prove some sort loyalty to the left but you might have noticed I’ve never critised the CTU before. I haven’t criticesed the teachers.
Comment by NeilM — October 27, 2010 @ 10:16 am
NeilM, your last post is simply wrong. The CTU intervention came AFTER the ban and was purely to help mediate a settlement. I suppose you could say they “supported” the MEAA insofar as they offered expertise and advice, but not in the way you clearly imply.
Comment by Sanctuary — October 27, 2010 @ 10:23 am
61.If Labour and the unions want to assume that criticism of them is all just a RWC then so be it.
Damn – I spent five seconds figuring how Martin Sneddon had got the Rugby World Cup into this before twigging.
Comment by Ataahua — October 27, 2010 @ 10:27 am
The CTU looked at this and all they saw was another opportunity to attack the government.
On a related note, did anyone else hear the radio interview this morning with Kate Gainsford of the PPTA?
I may have missed a subtle nuance or two (I was concentrating on driving at the time) but she seemed to be saying that “relations between the PPTA unon and Anne Tolley are strained, because she doesn’t buy us nice coffee like she used to when in opposition.”
WTF?
Comment by Phil — October 27, 2010 @ 10:37 am
Helen Kelly attacked Jackson the minute she got involved. She took the side of a union hopelessly out of its depth. Kelly immediately took the view that MEAA were completely justified in their actions without any understanding of what was going on.
Even now MEAA still claim they “only wanted to talk”. And now they are claiming that it was their actions that got actors on the Hobbit residuals. But that was something Jackson negotiated for actors before all this took place. The MEAA can never get their facts right and it’s beyound it just being incompetence.
Comment by NeilM — October 27, 2010 @ 10:41 am
NeilM, for a union member you sure do have weird idea of how union solidarity works. The CTU offered/were asked to help out by a Union that was small and lacked resources.
“…She took the side of a union hopelessly out of its depth…”
Uh ah… And? What the fuck were they supposed to do? Say “Brothers, we refuse to offer you anything in the way of our experience, resources or support”? Or perhaps you wish to grant to the CTU the gift of prescience, so they can accurately assess the lack of good faith and ambush politicising of the dispute from the other party?
You seemed determined to conflate the MEAA’s actions with those of the CTU and, even more bizarrely, to drag the Labour Party into the dispute, presumably to tarnish it with a particularly egregious use of guilt by association.
To actively promote a narrative that is both wrong in detail and seemed designed to cause maximum damage by determinedly smeering the Labour party on the basis of no facts whatsoever is very odd behaviour for a “Union member and Labour voter”.
Comment by Sanctuary — October 27, 2010 @ 10:58 am
ha ha ha, omg, LOL, I have heard it all now.
Comment by Dianne — October 27, 2010 @ 11:17 am
Thanks Sancty and Psycho Milt – nice to see you’ve got some energy left you G.C.’s
Comment by k.jones — October 27, 2010 @ 11:21 am
“ha ha ha, omg, LOL”
OMG OMG OMFG!!!
thanks for that sensible contribution to the discourse, as always… it’s nice that 12 year olds feel comfortable adding their views here.
Comment by nommopilot — October 27, 2010 @ 11:27 am
In the final analysis, the allegorical subtext of The Hobbit demonstrates that the companions (obviously AE and friends) defeat Smaug (WB and their filthy hoarding capitalists acolytes).
This is good news for the Helen Kelly.
Comment by Gregor White — October 27, 2010 @ 11:38 am
Key is going to sell our industrial relations system down the river for a movie. We know where we stand with these creeps and that is in the work unit corral. Really, it is as plain as the nose on your face, he is willing to sell out his country so as to not upset Warner Brothers.
I’m not sure that the Actors union can be blamed for his spineless devotion to money
Comment by Another Kiwi — October 27, 2010 @ 12:27 pm
“Uh ah… And? What the fuck were they supposed to do? ” asks Sancty.
Well, shout “spoilt brat”! nice and loud, obviously, ‘cos that would advance the cause no end.
Comment by Clunking Fist — October 27, 2010 @ 1:36 pm
I have never heard so much rubbish. On that note I am unsubscribing.
Comment by Dianne — October 27, 2010 @ 1:46 pm
Union solidarity literally means that when Simon Whipp seeks the way of honor, Helen Kelly must also disembowel herself.
Comment by JD — October 27, 2010 @ 1:47 pm
Cost of Whipp et al threatening: probably, changes to employment law.
Cost of the “positive” Rally for Hope: extra millions in tax breaks, which equates to several thousand dollars per costumed placard-waver.
Thanks, everyone.
Comment by sammy — October 27, 2010 @ 2:01 pm
Sure is kiwiblog in here.
Comment by Jake — October 27, 2010 @ 2:15 pm
“I have never heard so much rubbish. On that note I am unsubscribing.”
Hurrah! Intellectual bar, lifted.
Comment by Gregor White — October 27, 2010 @ 3:44 pm
@3 I wonder if we’re seeing the ‘smiling assassin’ side of Key – that he’s calculated that Warners has already invested too much into producing in New Zealand to pull out now that the industrial dispute is resolved.
That’s not the smiling assassin, that’s kids stuff.
That there is smiling assassination.
Gut employment law
use as an excuse the fact that we didn’t get a movie
(because the govt wouldn’t pony up the tax breaks),
and blame teh unionz.
But But but, lightbulbs and showerheads!!
Comment by Pascal's bookie — October 27, 2010 @ 4:04 pm
There is a lot of lefty smoke-screening going on here. Damage limitation aye guys.
Comment by Rob — October 27, 2010 @ 5:35 pm
@rob, it’s known as carpet bombing to try and kill disent by mass posting. No point in having free speech if it’s bad news for Labour and the Union movement (who are one and the same).
Comment by leon — October 27, 2010 @ 5:54 pm
NeilM, for a union member you sure do have weird idea of how union solidarity works.
my solidarity is with workers, not unions. Unions are a means to solidarity and when they make a complete hash of things as they have I’ll criticise them.
Kelly jumped in uncritically supporting MEAA and attacking Jackson when she did not know the full story and she hasn’t bothered to find out what the full story is.
As for Labour they’ve been spreading the same bullshit conspiracy theory as Kelly.
Not every issue needs to be worked up into an attack on Key. Some issues have a life of their own outside of the political ambtions of union execs and politicians.
Comment by NeilM — October 27, 2010 @ 6:23 pm
and while cooking the suasages, I’ll have a bit more of a bleat about this concern troll business. I’m repeating myself.
Back in the day when Chris Carter was a Labour Party hero for attacking Geoff Palmer on whaling I’d comment at RedAlert saying Carter is not to be trusted. The respeonse from the Labour MPs was – so get your talking points from Crisby Textor, troll etc etc.
Well look how that turned out.
Comment by NeilM — October 27, 2010 @ 6:45 pm
There is a lot of lefty smoke-screening going on here. Damage limitation aye guys.
Your inability to get beyond “Four legs good, two legs bad” is your own cross to bear, not ours.
@rob, it’s known as carpet bombing to try and kill disent by mass posting. No point in having free speech if it’s bad news for Labour and the Union movement (who are one and the same).
“Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! HELP! HELP! I’m being repressed!”
You were going to provide us with an account of how “the CTU and by extension the Labour Party are donkey deep in the development of this dispute if not the inception” is a fact, weren’t you Leon? Any progress on that one?
Not every issue needs to be worked up into an attack on Key.
Or an attack on Labour and the unions. The fact that Helen Kelly and various Labour MPs hold an opinion on the dispute contrary to your own isn’t the same as them being responsible for the dispute in the first place.
Comment by Psycho Milt — October 27, 2010 @ 6:56 pm
Kelly and Labour should have found out what the facts were before developing their opinions, they didn’t start this but they’ve conritubuted to a major union disaster through poor judgement and poor leadership skills.
As even more information comes out MEAA is shown to be even more culpable. Solidarity with them was a bad move. Solidarity with the larger group of workers who work in film might have been a better option. Labelling them a lynch mob showed just goes to show bad the mistake was.
Comment by NeilM — October 27, 2010 @ 7:11 pm