The Dim-Post

April 30, 2011

An infinite amount more where that came from

Filed under: Politics — danylmc @ 7:41 pm

Is there a worse way to launch a new left-wing party than by pissing away $500,000 of the public’s money on a completely unnecessary by-election?

Hone Harawira plans to force a by-election in his Northland Te Tai Tokerau seat before the general election.

At the launch of his new Mana Party today he vowed to have a by-election held within six weeks.

Sometimes I just want to strap the entire spectrum of left-wing politicians into dentists chairs and patiently explain to them – using chisels and barbed wire – that most the state’s wealth comes from ordinary people working hard and then giving a huge chunk of their income to the government, so spending it is a sacred trust not an endless opportunity to squander it all on gimmicks and whims and political stunts.

Anyway . . .

Sue Bradford lent her support but made no mention of whether she would stand as a candidate.

Bradford described the break-away party as a “party of activists” that has the support of unionists and political activists.

“We need a party that can really lead a fight and wouldn’t just fiddle around the edge or cozy up to the Government for crumbs,” the former Green MP said during her speech.

“There’s only one way to ensure our rights and future and that’s to fight for them.”

Political activist John Minto also aligned himself with the Mana Party.

I have no idea what the purpose of this party is. Are they going to contest the party vote in the Maori seats? If so, then why do they need Sue Bradford and John Minto? Are they going to launch a nation-wide campaign aimed at the far-left? If so, won’t most of those votes just come from the Greens, and risk them falling under the 5% threshold?

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52 Comments »

  1. Good ol’ Hone. The by-election expense will sit nicely with revelations of his $43K worth of travel claims in the last few months. But then he’s really sticking it to The Man, eh?

    Comment by Neil — April 30, 2011 @ 7:56 pm

  2. surely not the “entire spectrum of lefties” old boy?

    Comment by k.jones — April 30, 2011 @ 7:56 pm

  3. Bradford and Minto perceive the Greens are too focused on the educated, urban, middle classes and up. Stuff like putting energy opposing the Copyright Bill, or CERA, which are pretty academic topics that the oppressed proletarians don’t care about. The Greens are happy to utilise market forces, rather than wanting socialist reform (or revolution).

    The global trend for the Greens (especially Germany and Australia) has been much the same, they recognise that the old socialist politics don’t work, the socialism vs capitalist battle has been fought and lost by the socialists, so now everything is within a capitalist frame – the debates are about social/market/green capitalism.

    Comment by marsoe — April 30, 2011 @ 8:04 pm

  4. I expect this new party will be aiming for votes in poor suburbs where the Greens typically do badly.

    Comment by Kahikatea — April 30, 2011 @ 8:07 pm

  5. I’d rather our politicians err on the side of too much democracy than too little. Having said that, no, it’s not a good look.

    Early support is heavily Maori. Votes I think will come from Labour and from people who otherwise would’ve sat this one out. A few Greens, of course, but the Greens are in no real danger of dipping under 5%.

    Comment by bradluen — April 30, 2011 @ 8:07 pm

  6. Oh, and from the Maori Party, duh.

    Comment by bradluen — April 30, 2011 @ 8:22 pm

  7. To be fair the (lack of) Mana Party does have a growing electorate….beneficiaries and bludgers. Hone is taking the piss out of the system, good on him. The criticism should go to anyone seeking to stand against him. That should be the response by the public, instant flogging for anyone standing against him. See how his cunning stunt goes without any actual contest.

    Comment by Cactus Kate — April 30, 2011 @ 8:22 pm

  8. If testing his mandate is such an onerous burden so close to an election, the PM can always shift the general back a month and ask parliament if they should leave the seat empty till then. It’s entirely up to him.

    Comment by Pascal's bookie — April 30, 2011 @ 8:27 pm

  9. I think Hone is trying to use the energy and skills of the highly committed left wing politicos to assist in the logistical side of the party, especially if he wants to generate as large a list vote as possible to maximise the number of seats he can command. And the left wing want to use the vehicle that the Mana Party’s guaranteed entree to Parliament provides to push their otherwise electorally difficult policies (that’s another way of saying they don’t have a snowball”s chance of hell in being elected standing on those platforms as, for example, the Minto Party). Hone fancies himself as something of a Hugo Chavez of the South Seas or perhaps, in the Harawira manner, he sees Hugo as the Hone Harawira of Latin America. Hone and Don, eh? I am almost starting to feel sorry for John Key and Phil Goff.

    Comment by Tinakori — April 30, 2011 @ 8:28 pm

  10. McCarten, Bradford, Treen and company need to realise that the path that Hone is leading them up, is actually a garden one, not one to the promised land.

    Comment by millsy — April 30, 2011 @ 8:28 pm

  11. He’s no more taking the piss than Brash, who took over ACT instead of starting his own party which would have missed out on tax payer funded tv spots.

    Comment by Pascal's bookie — April 30, 2011 @ 8:29 pm

  12. Don Brash should stand in the by-election.

    He’d get no votes, but that wouldn’t matter. Think of the media coverage! He’d get mud chucked at him again (pre-arranged, by ‘ACT on Campus’ in blackface) and talkbackland would adore him.

    OK, burning the Treaty live on TV was a bit over the top, but you can’t argue with 20% in the polls.

    Comment by sammy — April 30, 2011 @ 8:30 pm

  13. Good opportunity for Labour to get a seat back..

    JC

    Comment by JC — April 30, 2011 @ 8:34 pm

  14. Bookie more or less has it. On what’s been revealed so far the Mana Party, though its principals might not think so, will serve mainly to cast the other left parties in a moderate light — Labour being shown as dully orthodox rather than the ‘extremist social engineers’ of the narrative; and the Greens as a collective of slightly eccentric but well-meaning mainstreamers.

    Hone’ll win his seat. That essentially makes them the ACT of the left.

    L

    Comment by Lew — April 30, 2011 @ 8:36 pm

  15. A fought by-election would have a pretty big drain on whatever finances Mana Party will have, even with Harawira’s influence.

    Comment by marsoe — April 30, 2011 @ 8:39 pm

  16. Hit go too early. Remainder of my comment follows:

    ‘ACT of the left’ should be the master narrative. Phil Goff, I think, knows this, and has ruled out working with the Mana Party. This permits him to contrast with the Nats, who have confirmed they will work with ACT under don Brash despite the PM’s admission he’s an ‘extremist’. Hone Harawira may unwittingly have cost National the ‘common sense’ high ground: if this plays how it looks like (Banksie looks like winning Epsom & brings Brash in with him; Hone wins TTT by-election) Then it’s National who are — by their own admission — working with the ideological extremists, not Labour.

    L

    Comment by Lew — April 30, 2011 @ 8:40 pm

  17. Given how angry Minto is at the ANC for not implementing a Marxist revolution, you’d think he’d think twice about a party that wants power and resources to be vested with tribes.
    I guess he assumes the revolution will be coming one way or another. No doubt we’ll see many other far left groups join up and fall out over the next wee while.

    I might have also heard it wrong but he wants a financial transaction tax of 1c in the dollar to replace all other taxes. If that’s the case he’s really lost the plot, last party to run that line had neo-Nazis and Ian Wishart readers in it.

    Comment by Richard — April 30, 2011 @ 8:50 pm

  18. “most of the state’s wealth comes from ordinary people working hard and then giving a huge chunk of their income to the government, so spending it is a sacred trust not an endless opportunity to squander it all on gimmicks and whims and political stunts.”

    Every aspiring politician should have to memorise this and abide by it.

    Comment by homepaddock — April 30, 2011 @ 8:59 pm

  19. The financial transaction tax was proposed as a possible replacement for GST, not for everything. Support for such a tax puts Hone in the company of such radicals as Sarkozy and Merkel.

    Comment by bradluen — April 30, 2011 @ 9:06 pm

  20. …won’t most of those votes just come from the Greens, and risk them falling under the 5% threshold?

    Apart from the points made above re likely constituencies for Greens vs Mana, ask yourself whether you can seriously picture Sue Bradford getting all cut up about taking votes from the Greens. Can’t manage it myself.

    Comment by Psycho Milt — April 30, 2011 @ 10:36 pm

  21. The financial transaction tax was proposed as a possible replacement for GST, not for everything. Support for such a tax puts Hone in the company of such radicals as Sarkozy and Merkel.

    Sorry Bradluen, at 1c in the $ an FTT wouldn’t come close to replacing GST. No one’s been able to put together credible numbers that it would. The FTT/tobin tax being proposed offshore is a pretty different beast from major revenue gatherer that Hone and friends are dreaming of.

    Comment by Richard — April 30, 2011 @ 11:02 pm

  22. Hone is doing an radical Islamist.. its OK to lie to an enemy (the media over a by-election), break an agreement (with the Maori Party) when you feel strong enough, carry out guerrilla warfare (a by-election) and conscript extremists from anywhere provided they help spread the insurgency.

    Its good tactics and almost guaranteed to pull in the dissidents to form a core for the party that could fire up the closet anarchist in the secrecy of the ballet box. In fact, its a pity they launched a week or so too late.. they could have provided a home for Brash.

    JC

    Comment by JC — April 30, 2011 @ 11:05 pm

  23. I think that, while it is a horrendous waste of money, it is potentially a clever move from Hone’s advisers. His new party is hardly likely to have any rich backers (even the Maori Party have Ngai Tahu and the other corporate Maori entities) and this is a cheap way (for the party, not the taxpayer) to launch the party and get valuable media coverage in the lead up to the election.

    It remains to be seen whether kiwis will be happy at all this. On the other hand, even if most of us are bemused and a little annoyed at it, his potential supporters may not see it as such a problem.

    Comment by DT — April 30, 2011 @ 11:35 pm

  24. Guess the Government will have to borrow $300.5 million that week.

    Comment by OECD rank 22 kiwi — May 1, 2011 @ 12:21 am

  25. “It remains to be seen whether kiwis will be happy at all this. On the other hand, even if most of us are bemused and a little annoyed at it, his potential supporters may not see it as such a problem.”

    There’s a laughable Pakeha response to these sort of by-elections.. cost. Northland Maori mightn’t be as well educated as people in Remmers, but they know $500,000 is peanuts compared to an annual Govt spend of $70 billion. And lets remember that Northland Maori will be looking to see what response there is to Hone’s challenge. Will National, Labour etc huff and puff about expense and concede the field.. or will they have a go? Will Nat/Lab play into Hone’s hands and show their contempt for Northland Maori by not really contesting?

    In his own way, Hone is challenging the Mofos in both parties to cede this election to him, and prove that they dont care about Northland Maori and his potential constituency around NZ.

    JC

    Comment by JC — May 1, 2011 @ 12:36 am

  26. Phil Goff, I think, knows this, and has ruled out working with the Mana Party.

    As they say, got a link for that Lew? Doubt it. Impulsive, Decisive Goffy? And you’d be amazed at the antipathy for Brash and dogwhistling racism even (and especially) among lifelong tories out there: big-poll Johnny’s the anti-raruraru, remember. Sure, “ACT of the Left” sounds cool; but ACT is now SHIT: always-minute, artificially-engineered, now blood-splattered and geriatric, warmed-over, MERDE.

    Hone, on the other hand, is indisputably, Nandor-like (and now supported-) COOL: in the hands of an intensely-focused McCarten and unprecendented general anomie territory, remember Mining – and prepare to be amazed at what the hi-tech seeds of its own destruction will soon deliver the forces of Greed.

    Comment by ak — May 1, 2011 @ 1:42 am

  27. $500,000 is peanuts compared to an annual Govt spend of $70 billion.

    +1.

    Kind of surprised to see Danyl playing the old neo-liberal “Dang lefties and their profligate disregard for the public purse” meme, but we’ve already seen him get on board with the “Dang Greens are riddled with beardy old Marxists with no common sense” chestnut, so why not?

    Comment by Hugh — May 1, 2011 @ 1:47 am

  28. @JC#25:

    Yes, it is true that I am pakeha. But I wasn’t meaning to insult anyone. And my being pakeha had nothing to do with my comment.

    Your point that voters may realise that $0.5m is a small amount compared to other drains on the Crown accounts (say Nationals tax cuts) is fair. Likewise, for the issues that are important to those voters, and the sense of urgency that they feel about them, they may feel that this cost is trivial. And, given their perspective, I understand it. To take an example from the other end of the spectrum: if a pakeha MP forced a by-election about the recent foreshore and seabed legislation, I reckon that many pakeha would think that $0.5m is a small price to pay to `give the people a voice.’

    So all I meant was that while I expect that a majority of New Zealanders will probably not be happy about the by-election, a decent number may be quite happy, and for good reason given their point of view on a number of matters. And, I expect that they are people that the Mana party want to connect with.

    In that sense, it is a good move. My only sense that it could (and I don’t think this a highly likely possibility) turn out bad for the Mana Party is if the media decide to go with the point of view of most kiwis. If they REALLY go feral this could hurt the Mana Party. But I sense (and may be wrong) that Mana Party voters aren’t too easily swayed by the media.

    Comment by DT — May 1, 2011 @ 1:52 am

  29. Bradford, Minto, and Harawira? This party’s going to splinter before the election even happens.

    Comment by Questioneer — May 1, 2011 @ 2:20 am

  30. This stupid bloody financial tax was Social Credits albatross back in their day and remains a gauranteed vote loser.

    Comment by Fentex — May 1, 2011 @ 3:14 am

  31. Sorry Bradluen, at 1c in the $ an FTT wouldn’t come close to replacing GST.

    Yeah, I agree with this. The reason to implement a FTT is for its own sake (market stabilisation etc); you’re not going to get more than a billion or two out of it at realistic rates. Harawira is also talking about a capital gains or similar tax as well, which is a better idea for serious revenue-gathering.

    Comment by bradluen — May 1, 2011 @ 7:43 am

  32. And remember that Social Credit, despite their occasional loopiness, got 21% of the vote in the 1981! The Greens, ACT, and Mana would be shocked to get that amount between them. (Though in John Ansell’s case, he’d be shocked their vote was so low.)

    Comment by bradluen — May 1, 2011 @ 7:51 am

  33. ‘ACT of the left’ should be the master narrative. Phil Goff, I think, knows this, and has ruled out working with the Mana Party. This permits him to contrast with the Nats, who have confirmed they will work with ACT under don Brash despite the PM’s admission he’s an ‘extremist’.

    Um, Lew, this would be the Phil Goff who’s totally relaxed working with Winston Peters if that zombie apocalypse ever comes down, right? I’d keep rubbing Goff’s nose in that — because, as usual, he’s trying to have it both way and shouldn’t be allowed to.

    Comment by Craig Ranapia — May 1, 2011 @ 10:31 am

  34. Youk ow, if I wanted my news to be right-wing talking points lazily regurgitated without context I wouldn’t bother bookmarking the dimpost – I can just get it from the NZ Herald. As it is, this post reads like Danyl had just got of the phone from DPF, and flattered at the attention he rushed to his PC to make this post.

    Danyl likes to excoriate (only) Labour MP’s for being self-centered careerists who are only interested in their own political tenure. Yet when an MP resigns and seeks a new democratic mandate from his electorate he is “wasting public money”. Danyl’s Pavlovian view of left wing politicians is a tcopic for another time; but suffice it to point out that Hone Harawira at least has the virtue of having run for office and actually being elected, and he is confident enough in his views to seek the moral re-affirmation of his mandate a bye election provides. The contrast with Brash, a man never elected by the people of New Zealand to anything, yet who presumes to demand the finance ministers role, is obvious. The contrast between Harawira and Brash in courage is pretty clear to. Harawira at least will take his chances with the people. Brash is such a political coward that he wouldn’t even join the party he leads until they cravenly caved in to his blackmail and he hasn’t even got the guts to stand in Epsom lest even those voters find him unpalatable. And yet he demands to be finance minister. When it comes to democracy, Hide may have worn the yellow jacket but Brash has the yellow belly.

    And anyway, the Mana party using $500,000 of public money to raise their profile and seek an renewed mandate at least has the merit that they don’t have any money of their own. Surely it is at a good use of public money to offer an alternative political program as it is to spend it on BMW’s or to give tax-payers money to the ACT party to help it campaign when Brash was apparently able to bully his way to power by threatening to remove the untold treasure of his corporate backers? If Brash has that much money, why are we not discussing that little taxpayer rort? Like I say, at least the Mana party can do with the money and makes no pretense to championing the private sector as morally superior while sucking on the taxpayers teat for election spending.

    Comment by Sanctuary — May 1, 2011 @ 11:23 am

  35. People like bradluen go on about the Social Credit vote as if people actually wanted them in power. Most who were alive and voting at the time remember it was “a plague on both your houses” strategy. With only 3 candidates to vote for in most electorate and National fielding a grumpy old RSA farmer with Labour having a crackpot union official, there wasn’t a real choice. When Vern Cracknell actually got elected, people realised how crackpot they really were he got turfed out next election. Bruce Beetham got in because the stood an unpopular potato farmer against him and Gary Knapp beat Don Brash.
    MMP allowed narrowcasting where parties like the Maori and Greens could find a niche. The real question is whether all the minnows are squabbling over the same disaffected, or will they bring in the currently non-voting population.

    Comment by Chris Morris — May 1, 2011 @ 11:34 am

  36. Well said Sanctuary. And wouldn’t be loverly if after the 2011 Election that Hone ended up with the final card in the balance of power! Hoots!

    Comment by Ianmac — May 1, 2011 @ 11:46 am

  37. I would happily see the $10m or so of taxpayer money it requires being spent on a pre-election referendum nominating the top 5 people to be disallowed from parliament.

    This coming election is looking like a horror show of nutjobs and hasbeens :(

    Comment by greg — May 1, 2011 @ 12:40 pm

  38. “The contrast with Brash, a man never elected by the people of New Zealand to anything, yet who presumes to demand the finance ministers role, is obvious.”

    Except that he DID get elected as an MP in 2002 and 2005, and served as leader of a political party that got some 40% of the vote … unless, of course, we’re running the line that list MPs aren’t “really” elected? Which means we’ll all be voting to dump MMP in November this year?

    As for the substance of this post, it is true both that Harawira is resigning as a self-serving move to garner publicity for his new party and that he thinks endorsement from his constituents is a morally necessary prerequisite to continuing to serve as their representative. Hence, you can play up either angle and be “correct” … or, alternatively, you can argue either case and still be “wrong”.

    Comment by Andrew Geddis — May 1, 2011 @ 1:06 pm

  39. Sanctuary, I’d have no problem with a by-election if we were a year out from a general election, but instead we’ve got bugger-all months to go and Parliament doesn’t *need* to have this seat sorted out before November. Hone’s move isn’t about democracy, it’s about Hone – and that’s what’s got my knickers in a knot.

    Comment by Ataahua — May 1, 2011 @ 1:32 pm

  40. bradluen @ 31 “The reason to implement a FTT is for its own sake (market stabilisation etc)” Market stabilisation? Really? Name a country that has a FTT for that purpose and therefore has proven that it does or doesn’t work.
    Stamp and cheque duties are FTT, and we dumped them due to the cost v benefit. We have (just) a gift FTT, but it doesn’t stop gifting, just slows down the process, annoying everyone, whilst providing bread and butter for lawyers and accountants. (declaration of interest: I’m an accountant)

    Comment by Clunking Fist — May 1, 2011 @ 1:35 pm

  41. greg @ 36 “I would happily see the $10m or so of taxpayer money it requires being spent on a pre-election referendum nominating the top 5 people to be disallowed from parliament.”

    This translates as “Greg says he is happy to see other people’s money being spent to have their democratic rights curbed” Just think if your favourite poly (pollie?), ends up on that list. Then you’ll want another $10M spent recfitying the “mistake”. Truly, if you wouldn’t want it to happen to you, why do you think it is fair for it to happen to other people? “First they came for the Jews, then the Actoids” etc. I’d love nothing better than to never see or hear from Winston Peters ever again, but folk have the right to vote for him if he stands.

    Comment by Clunking Fist — May 1, 2011 @ 1:36 pm

  42. @ Ataahua – yep, to Hone it’s ALWAYS about Hone!

    I have no problem with Hone’s byelection – it is an obvious ‘garner ya resources’ move to deploy all his supporters on one electorate to project a strong majority prior to the general election.

    But….. I hope no-one stands against him other than a Maori Party candidate or Labour’s Kelvin Davis. Hone is a habitual liar, who doesn’t even stick to his written agreements. How can anyone trust him?

    And Tinakori is right – Hone is just using the liberal left supporters. Minto & McCarten can dream of Hone following their advice, but Hone has proven when he gets a bee under his bonnet, he’ll do whatever he feels like. No GST for Maori perhaps? ;) A suitably daft idea for Hone to run with…

    Meanwhile, beneath the Hone ego tour radar, ordinary working class Maori and pakeha are struggling to survive. Hone of course, has got our back (pocket, with wallet enclosed).

    Comment by bob — May 1, 2011 @ 3:55 pm

  43. Oh look another cult of personality party founded on the ego of a squalling child who didn’t get their own way…….. he even reminded me of Winston a couple of times this morning on Q&A.

    Comment by Maoron — May 1, 2011 @ 5:08 pm

  44. Fist: I actually think the Stamp Duty in the UK has (in the past) worked pretty well, though admittedly the evidence is circumstantial. It’s certainly meant proportionately less speculation compared to the US. It’s harder to prove it affected, say, volatility, in part because we don’t (as far as I know) have reliable measures of volatility going back more than a couple of decades. Still, while the Stamp Duty has being down, it very much seems volatility has been going up. But correlation is not causation, etc.

    (Before anyone else mentions it: Yes, the Swedes botched their introduction of an FTT, so caution is required for sure.)

    Comment by bradluen — May 1, 2011 @ 7:59 pm

  45. “It’s certainly meant proportionately less speculation compared to the US.”
    There’s no study that shows stamp duty saved the UK’s bacon. They merely failed to feck-up quite as badly as the US: the US has personal (ie non-business) deductibility for all interest, non-recourse loans (in 39 states), rules AGAINST proper credit checks (discriminatory, don’t cha know), mortgage guarantees, corrupt (or at least immoral) mortgage brokers, loose monetary policy, loose fiscal policy. Plus other stuff I’ve forgotten. A “perfect storm” as it were.
    Whilst the UK, too, had adjuster mortgage rates, when I was there it was only 2% below standard. And when the low-rate ended after 2 years, you went back to a broker and had a VERY good chance of getting another low rate from another bank wanting your business. Because you were a good risk back when you got the initial mortgage.

    Comment by Clunking Fist — May 2, 2011 @ 2:38 pm

  46. We can agree the US has deeper problems than the lack of a Stamp Duty…

    Comment by bradluen — May 3, 2011 @ 6:29 am

  47. Yeah, but you are arguing that stamp duty would have helped. In my opinion, it would be like putting ctton wool on the spikes at the bottom of the unfenced cliff. Apart from the unfair regressive nature of GST, what problems do we have in NZ that require would respond to the implementation of these FTTs?

    Comment by Clunking Fist — May 3, 2011 @ 2:21 pm

  48. I’ll spare you the usual “it fulfills all the criteria of a good tax as long as everyone doesn’t move their money to Australia” spiel. Let me make the following argument and wait until later to decide if I believe it.

    An FTT will help us avoid the next bailout.

    Marginal financial transactions are indistinguishable from gambling, increasing volatility with no improvement in allocation. Worse than that, the incentive structures in the finance industry encourage such gambling. Execs can give the go-ahead to extreme-risk activities with windfalls if they work and comparatively minor consequences if they don’t.

    What are the options for dealing with this?

    1. Let ‘em fail
    2. Nationalise finance
    3. Better oversight/regulation
    4. FTT

    Whatever the merits of the first two options, they’re not going to be politically viable anytime soon. Option 3 is needed to some degree to protect against Hubbard-level incompetence. Yet it’s hard not to be heavy-handed about regulation.

    FTT is as much a market solution as any externalities tax. I can’t find any NZ-specific research more recent than Sawyer 1998, but it seems feasible that an FTT, set at an appropriate level, is the solution with the minimum distortion to allocation. What an appropriate level might be, if it exists, requires further research.

    Comment by bradluen — May 4, 2011 @ 10:38 am

  49. Can you find any NON-NZ research that shows how FTT is effective at preventing bubbles?

    “What an appropriate level might be, if it exists, requires further research.” Rather than research, I think you mean “modeling”, becuase if you have no jurisdictions using FTT for the purposes you outline, you will have no data to research. Therefore, FTT would be introduced as an unproven method with substantial compliance costs, substantial evasion (as you point out), high investigation and enforcement costs and unintended consequences that will only be understood with the benefit of hindsight.

    Comment by Clunking Fist — May 4, 2011 @ 1:53 pm

  50. Well NZ has a history of being a world leader. I mean no one else did so much so fast as we did under Rogernomics and okay that’s not a good example.

    Comment by bradluen — May 5, 2011 @ 8:06 am

  51. We don’t ‘give’ our money to the government, they take it from us by force. What’s next, are we going to start saying we ‘give’ our cars to car thieves?

    Comment by bob — May 6, 2011 @ 1:38 pm

  52. Every three years you get the opportunity to vote for a political party that won’t tax you – it’s just that the percentage of the population that wants to live in a minimalist state is around the 0.05% mark.

    Comment by danylmc — May 6, 2011 @ 1:46 pm


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