The ACT Party are running this ad in the New Zealand Herald (kudos to the Dom-Post, who simply refused to carry it).
Brash expands in a press release:
ACT New Zealand leader Don Brash says he’s proud of the content of his Party’s advertisement published in this morning’s New Zealand Herald.
The advertisement is headed “Fed up with pandering to Maori radicals?” and itemises ways in which radical extremists have succeeded in imposing a separatist agenda on a long-suffering New Zealand.
“I have been warning of this creeping separatism for some time, as part of ACT’s One Law for All campaign,” says Dr Brash . . . it’s time this insidious cancer was diagnosed for what it is – a type of apartheid – and excised.
“Separatist militants have been trying it on. The fact that the Dominion Post, unlike the Herald, was too cowardly to run our ad shows how well those militants have been succeeding, not only in advancing their agenda but in closing down any debate on it.
“It’s time to tell them their game is up,” Dr Brash concludes.
There’s a lot I could say about this, but let’s just take it all as read and move onto the ad and the politics behind it. Firstly, this is a terrible ad – who gives another party’s logo a prominent place in their own campaign material? And the banner headline – ‘Fed up with pandering to Maori radicals?’ – imitates the language of traditional advertising (‘Fed up with hidden bank fees?’, ‘Sick of cold medications that promise more than they deliver?’) without understanding how it works. They speak to the everyday frustrations of the consumer – people are fed up with hidden bank fees! They aren’t fed up with pandering to Maori separatists, because none of us every actually has to do this. It’s a fake problem invented by the ACT Party. That’s not to say advertising can’t sell solutions to fake problems, just that this isn’t the way to do it.
Secondly I think this marks the transition of ACT from a faux classical liberal party who flirted with race-baiting to attract red-neck votes, to a de-facto white supremacy party (albeit one with a fetish for some authoritarian Asian states). If you gave Kyle Chapman a hundred grand to run an ad campaign it’d look pretty much like this, although he wouldn’t be dumb enough to put the Maori Party’s branding on it.
Thirdly, I think this misreads the public mood. In Don Brash’s mind its always the summer of 2004, when he gave the Orewa speech and shot ahead in the polls (for a little while). But that was during an economic boom time – now people have more pressing concerns. If you polled the public on the biggest problems facing the country I doubt ‘Pandering to Maori radicals’ would make the top one hundred on very many lists.
In terms of real-politik it’s even more dangerous. One more step in this direction and the pressure will go on Key to rule ACT out as a coalition partner and run a strong campaign in Epsom

Human Rights Act 1993
21 Prohibited grounds of discrimination
(1) For the purposes of this Act, the prohibited grounds of discrimination are—
…
(j) political opinion, which includes the lack of a particular political opinion or any political opinion:
…
44 Provision of goods and services
(1) It shall be unlawful for any person who supplies goods, facilities, or services to the public or to any section of the public—
by reason of any of the prohibited grounds of discrimination.
Comment by Graeme Edgeler — July 9, 2011 @ 12:09 pm
It should read:
Fed up with pandering to Maori radicals? Then pander to us and boost our poll ratings. Then we might be able to let our financial radicals loose.
Comment by Pete George — July 9, 2011 @ 12:11 pm
It looks like it will simply confirm ACT’s status as a party of disgruntled old white men. What is interesting is that over at kiwiblog, even most of the usual supporters are saying some variation of WTF.
Comment by David in Chch — July 9, 2011 @ 12:11 pm
I would have preferred a rehash of Iwi/Kiwi, but referring to Brash instead.
Maybe Douche/Bouche. Accuracy in advertising.
Comment by Dizzy — July 9, 2011 @ 12:12 pm
And at the same time, publishers have a right to decide they’re not going to run a sewer, or act as a conduit for the incitement of racial disharmony. That sort of shit belongs on the badly photocopied flyers the balding mouthbreathers push through people’s letterboxes.
Comment by Idiot/Savant — July 9, 2011 @ 12:17 pm
Actually it is the tino rangatiratanga flag, not the Maori Party’s. But you are right re it being a terrible ad and the Kyle Chapman analogy, danyl.
Comment by toad — July 9, 2011 @ 12:19 pm
Whilst I agree with your opinion in substance, I sometimes wonder if our view of the world is one that assumes progress. It’s easier to see dismantling apartheid as something that is behind us, as opposed to something that might be coming. Just as there are a bunch of pro-Brash voters occupying a small section of the spectrum there are a bunch of people keen to establish a co-governance model for NZ going forward. Indeed, it’s happening bit by bit – Waikato River Settlement Act establishes this, and a few days ago, another example: Maori Seek Co-Governance
ACT may be hyperbolic, and co-governance sounds much nicer than “apartheid”, but if it walks like a rakiraki and quacks like a rakiraki, then maybe there’s a point to Brash’s braying? It depends if one sees this as a slippery slope or a couple of steps to redress past wrongs, and then the politics is over and we all go back to arguing that you get more or less democracy with MMP (Maori seats aside).
Comment by ZenTiger — July 9, 2011 @ 12:24 pm
PS: This latest stunt by Brash is great encouragement not to vote ACT even as a protest vote against National. As I said, I agree with your opinion in substance, but its a bit boring to join the echo chamber
Comment by ZenTiger — July 9, 2011 @ 12:27 pm
Nothing wrong with it…its true and people know it…that is real people outside lefty blogsites. The racial pandering to the great collective Maori uber-race abstraction needs nipping in the bud before its toxicity results in massive racial division and a “cold” civil war of sorts happening….the signs of which have been peculating for a long time now.
Comment by James — July 9, 2011 @ 12:33 pm
Graeme, I think you’re misreading the Human Rights Act. Prohibited grounds of discrimination are exactly that – one may not discriminate against a person due to their sex, age, race, gender, and other features including political opinion. One may not discriminate “by reason of any of the prohibited grounds of discrimination.”
However, discrimination attaches to persons, and ant-discrimination legislation describes a positive duty of non-discrimination towards persons, not to actions. If Dr Brash was to run an advertisement for gardening supplies, barring his ad would be clearly illegal. Were he to run an ad calling for genocide (which is indeed a political opinion), the paper would be perfectly entitled to refuse it.
Comment by George D — July 9, 2011 @ 12:38 pm
Which is why, of course, ACT is polling at the stratospheric number of ~4%.
Comment by The PC Avenger — July 9, 2011 @ 12:41 pm
However, discrimination attaches to persons, and ant-discrimination legislation describes a positive duty of non-discrimination towards persons, not to actions.
Don Brash is a person. The DomPost has refused to run his ad based on a political opinion.
Comment by Graeme Edgeler — July 9, 2011 @ 12:49 pm
The DomPost has refused to run his ad based on a political opinion
No, there’s a very important distinction there. The Dominion Post has not refused to refused to run an on the basis of the political opinions of Don Brash. They have refused to run an ad on the basis of the content of that ad.
In order to prosecute you would have to demonstrate the former, not the latter.
This is the same standard that is applied elsewhere. Personhood, and intrinsic values that attach, are not grounds for discrimination. Actions are. A religious school that teaches that homosexuality is wrong may not refuse to hire a homosexual teacher. They may fire that person if he teaches outside their religious curriculum.
Comment by George D — July 9, 2011 @ 1:01 pm
And if you gaze for long into the sub-5 percent abyss, the sub-5 percent abyss gazes also into you.
Comment by Conor Roberts — July 9, 2011 @ 1:16 pm
What has Nietzche got to do with any of this ? Danyl showcasing his tinpot understanding of philosophy perhaps.
Comment by jon — July 9, 2011 @ 1:18 pm
This is the same standard that is applied elsewhere. Personhood, and intrinsic values that attach, are not grounds for discrimination. Actions are.
If this were true it would be unlawful for a restaurant to refuse to serve women who breastfeeds her baby (in the general sense), but lawful for them to refuse service to women who were actually breastfeeding (i.e. at the time).
This simply isn’t the case.
ref: http://www.moh.govt.nz/moh.nsf/indexmh/breastfeeding-environments (among others)
Comment by Graeme Edgeler — July 9, 2011 @ 1:25 pm
I, for one, would welcome the ACT party bringing a discrimination case against the Dominion Post under the Human Rights Act to which they are so virulently opposed.
L
Comment by Lew — July 9, 2011 @ 1:28 pm
Based on current and I suspect future polling there do not appear to be many angry white men (old or young) in this country
Comment by Tinakori — July 9, 2011 @ 1:31 pm
Graeme,
How do we know that the Dom Post’s refusal was due to the political view expressed, as opposed to its concerns that the means of expression may upset and alienate its readers? After all, a general right to advertise your political views in the newspaper can’t be the same as the right to advertise your political views in the newspaper IN ANY WAY YOU WANT. Or, would the Dom Post be required to carry the Labour Party’s ad: “Stop fucking rich cunts buying our public assets”?
jon,
I think danyl had in mind the fact that you can find a Nietzsche quote for just about any occasion:
“[I]t is precisely facts that do not exist, only interpretations…. ”
“Underneath this reality in which we live and have our being, another and altogether different reality lies concealed…”
“One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear. ”
“He who thinks a great deal is not suited to be a party man: he thinks his way through the party and out the other side too soon.”
And so on …
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 9, 2011 @ 1:36 pm
Lew – that was pretty much my point
Comment by Graeme Edgeler — July 9, 2011 @ 1:36 pm
I think they’re pushing wider the interpretation of the Human Rights Act. (for what it’s worth, I support them doing so) In this case, they’re arguing that the prevention of breastfeeding is a form of discrimination on the basis of sex, and the view that breastfeeding mothers and their babies form an inseparable biological and social unit.. Those are both credible claims.
I don’t think the grounds of discrimination on the basis of political belief carve out the obligations that you’ve claimed, but I’m open to argument. How has the grounds of political belief been tested in law, if at all?
Comment by George D — July 9, 2011 @ 1:37 pm
You gotta feel sorry for John ’40%’ Ansell, it only took two months to go from this:
I repeat: Don’s devastating secret weapon is The Truth. If he employs this weapon properly, 40%+ is not only possible, but probable.
to this today:
The problem with New Zealand is it’s full of white cowards who are too frightened of being called names to stand up for the truth.
(And that’s just the ACT Party.)
Links to comments, beware brain bleach may be required post reading.
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/04/will_don_be_finance_minister.html#comment-824942
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/07/acts_new_ad.html#comment-850120
Comment by andy (the other one) — July 9, 2011 @ 2:01 pm
“Stop fucking rich cunts buying our public assets”
Nice one, professor.
Comment by Dizzy — July 9, 2011 @ 2:02 pm
Purely for the purposes of illustration, mind, Dizzy.
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 9, 2011 @ 2:05 pm
Of course, but I’ve been waiting about 15 years to repeat that Rik Mayall line from Bottom 2. Who knew that one day I’d be able to say it to an actual professor…
Comment by Dizzy — July 9, 2011 @ 2:09 pm
This is really dumb stuff from ACT. Before and during the rugby world cup any attempt at divisiveness will be met with a sharp and stern STFU from the general public. If they keep this up, ACT are going to have a very bad year.
Comment by Newtown News — July 9, 2011 @ 2:11 pm
“Of course, but I’ve been waiting about 15 years to repeat that Rik Mayall line from Bottom 2.”
I don’t know if that is admirable or a bit frightening … but glad to be of some use in this world.
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 9, 2011 @ 2:13 pm
Hone on Don – “Hitler!”
Later, Don says “Little Hitlers!”
Helen on Don – “cancerous!”
Later, Don says “this insidious cancer!”
Monkey hear, monkey say.
Comment by sammy — July 9, 2011 @ 2:19 pm
I am, as usual confused, and I must issue an apology to you forthwith.
The actual line is “Have a wank, professor,” and so my dream is not realised. Not unless I go and hang around Kelburn Parade and just shout it at the nearest professor. But that’s not the dream. That’s just a public order offence.
Comment by Dizzy — July 9, 2011 @ 2:22 pm
As I said over at Kiwiblog – this ad is pure Perigo. Perigo has no interest in economics, and is simply a C list conservative who loves to bash all minorities – Maori, Muslim, or whoever.
I thought Brash was better than this.
Comment by Ruth — July 9, 2011 @ 2:45 pm
Andrew, we don’t. I just like stirring the pot. I agree that this is probably fine, although I don’t think it’s necessarily clear cut.
Comment by Graeme Edgeler — July 9, 2011 @ 2:46 pm
“The racial pandering to the great collective Maori uber-race abstraction needs nipping in the bud before its toxicity results in massive racial division and a “cold” civil war of sorts happening….the signs of which have been peculating for a long time now.”
You know Jimbo, it’s not your views or laughable attempts to apply logic which are offensive; they’re actually really funny. It’s your laboured manner of expression and lack of respect for the English language that irritate. Hopefully your high school English teacher will straighten you out when you get there.
Comment by Guy Smiley — July 9, 2011 @ 2:59 pm
So what’s wrong with my sentence Guy?….like I care what you think.
Comment by James — July 9, 2011 @ 3:13 pm
Your sentence Guy? You mean you have some poor bastard to write your comments for you? I hope he’s still within his 90-day probationary period.
L
Comment by Lew — July 9, 2011 @ 3:16 pm
The natural comeback for Hone and co is to do a similar ad
“Fed up with pandering to free market radicals?”
But leaving out all the small print.
Comment by Michael — July 9, 2011 @ 3:18 pm
Dizzy,
You could always say Mayall’s line to me anyway … I promise not to be offended.
Graeme,
I know you like stirring. But why should I let you have all the fun? In fact, why should I let you have ANY fun at all?
James,
Nietzsche even has a quote for you!
“Once upon a time, in some out of the way corner of that universe which is dispersed into numberless twinkling solar systems, there was a star upon which clever beasts invented knowing. That was the most arrogant and mendacious minute of “world history,” but nevertheless, it was only a minute. After nature had drawn a few breaths, the star cooled and congealed, and the clever beasts had to die. One might invent such a fable, and yet he still would not have adequately illustrated how miserable, how shadowy and transient, how aimless and arbitrary the human intellect looks within nature. There were eternities during which it did not exist. And when it is all over with the human intellect, nothing will have happened. “
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 9, 2011 @ 3:20 pm
Still waiting to hear why Brash/ACT are wrong in what they say……
Comment by James — July 9, 2011 @ 3:27 pm
Silly James,
This is the thread where we sneeringly deride Act and smugly make in-jokes at your expense. The thread where people say why Act is so wrong is here: http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/07/acts_new_ad.html
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 9, 2011 @ 3:45 pm
http://unpopularpeoplesfront.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/cactuskate-is-fed-up.jpg
Comment by Richard — July 9, 2011 @ 3:49 pm
Ansell:
The problem with New Zealand is it’s full of white cowards who are too frightened of being called names to stand up for the truth.
Jeepers. Ansell’s been mad for a long time, but this seems to be essentially an incitement to race war.
Comment by Russell Brown — July 9, 2011 @ 3:58 pm
“Only one thing can stop the Maori radicalisation of New Zealand. And that’s a strong ACT.”
You don’t really buy that shit, do you?
Comment by Steve Parkes — July 9, 2011 @ 4:00 pm
That comment was directed at James.
Comment by Steve Parkes — July 9, 2011 @ 4:00 pm
ACT would end race based favouritism by lunchtime Steve…and why not?…its not doing anything good for the average Maori individual and a great deal of harm.
Comment by James — July 9, 2011 @ 4:09 pm
Why not? Because dearest James, the reality is that you need to have legislative power to do that. And it’s looking increasingly unlikely that ACT will even get into parliament, let alone being able to enact whatever misguided agenda they’re promoting now.
For someone who professes to be guided by reality, you’re not really grounded in it.
Comment by The PC Avenger — July 9, 2011 @ 4:45 pm
“ACT would end race based favouritism by lunchtime Steve…and why not?…its not doing anything good for the average Maori individual and a great deal of harm.”
He’s right, you know. How many people here are aware that 63% of all fatal road accidents are caused by the fact that Maori are permitted to drive on whatever side of the road they choose, as a consequence of Article 2 of the Treaty?
WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 9, 2011 @ 4:48 pm
PC….ACT can influence and pressure National who CAN do something about it.You remember them….the party that is supposed to opposed racial collectivism and vowed to end the nonsense of Maori seats?
Comment by James — July 9, 2011 @ 4:49 pm
Andrew…..is the cartoon network down at the moment of something?
Comment by James — July 9, 2011 @ 4:50 pm
I hear that the Maoris got ownership of it and plan to turn it into a te reo propaganda outlet. There was a Perigo press release about it last week …
As for “ACT can influence and pressure National who CAN do something about it” … they’re doing a piss-poor job with 5 MPs. How much good will they be with 2-3?
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 9, 2011 @ 4:55 pm
You mean the same National that ACT are attacking the above ad? The same National that ACT claim are promoting Maori radicalism? If you insist.
Anyway, you’re ignoring the objective reality that the ability for ACT to have any influence in parliament requires them to be in parliament.
I don’t know about you, but I prefer to deal with things in reality, not whatever things a party polling at sub 5% would do if they had a majority of (or any) seats in the house.
Comment by The PC Avenger — July 9, 2011 @ 4:57 pm
Well, assuming National needs a coalition partner after the election, and assuming Mana and Maori Parties don’t wipe each other out but cooperate to increase their combined vote, then ACT is in a precarious position. It is less likely than the Maori bloc to be in a position to influence government because ACT will probably have fewer votes in Parliament than the Maori bloc will.
Attacking Maori therefore makes sense in the same way Peter Dunne attacked the Greens when Labour was in power. Scare the voters about the extremism of the other potential coalition partners, and vote for us to help keep them out.
Attacking Maori makes strategic sense for ACT.
(But this ad is dumb.)
Comment by MeToo — July 9, 2011 @ 6:26 pm
MeToo, If ACT are trying to strategically attack Maori then the ad works towards that goal. I agree that it is a shit ad though.
Comment by abel the amish — July 9, 2011 @ 6:30 pm
What “attack on Maori”? Its an attack on race based favouritism and State bias towards a group at the expense of all others.
Comment by James — July 9, 2011 @ 7:03 pm
@james ‘at the expense of all others’
How is it ‘at the expense of all others’? How exactly am I suffering because Maori have some perceived privilege?
Comment by ieuan — July 9, 2011 @ 7:12 pm
Andrew,
Let me know why you’re next on the Court Report and I’ll come and sit in the audience.
Comment by Dizzy — July 9, 2011 @ 7:25 pm
When, not why.
Comment by Dizzy — July 9, 2011 @ 7:26 pm
“How is it ‘at the expense of all others’? How exactly am I suffering because Maori have some perceived privilege?”
Because their demands that Whanganui be spelt with an “h” mean that you can’t spell it Wanganui any more!
Except, of course, that you can.
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 9, 2011 @ 8:16 pm
Dizzy,
How about I let you know next time when and why I am in the court news. Would that be close enough?
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 9, 2011 @ 8:17 pm
But doesn’t the presence (and noisiness) of one radical outlet succeed mainly in calling forward its opposite? I certainly remember a lot of very angry Maori after the Orewa speech. It worked strategically for the Nats at the time because the surrounding panic drove a wedge between Labour and Maori, leaving the Maori Party improbably to form a coalition with the post-Brash Nats in 2008. But it’s harder to see how Act would gain here – they’d mainly be taking votes from National, leaving the Nats in a more vulnerable coalition-building position, and the Maori electorates gives their opposite a major advantage in the coalition partner stakes.
Comment by Trouble — July 9, 2011 @ 8:27 pm
Any state directed bias towards one group must,by simple cause and effect ,disadvantage another…..and just who is “Maori” in NZ and who isn’t? The dilution via sexual intercourse is making the question irrelevant.
Comment by James — July 9, 2011 @ 8:58 pm
Except that such things are not a zero-sum game. Sorry champ.
Comment by The PC Avenger — July 9, 2011 @ 9:05 pm
The dilution via sexual intercourse is making the question irrelevant.
Ungrateful sods. Give them gooseberry bushes and they persist in procreating – miscegenating, even – in their grubby primeval fashion. You’d never catch Brash doing that.
Comment by Joe Wylie — July 9, 2011 @ 9:11 pm
I can see how Maori representation on local council boards would rob you of your capacity to enjoy life.
Comment by danylmc — July 9, 2011 @ 9:24 pm
Maori representation in itself re Maori property …no. …Uber Maori casting vote domination…you bet numpty!
Comment by James — July 9, 2011 @ 9:33 pm
PC…make sense or piss off.Seriously the intellectual level here is trending towards “ditch”.
Comment by James — July 9, 2011 @ 9:35 pm
Having James order people off someone else’s blogsite whilst decrying the low level of intellectual cut-and-thrust is ironic in the way Alanis Morissette used the term.
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 9, 2011 @ 9:50 pm
James, what was nonsensical about what I said? The term ‘zero-sum game’? It’s a very common term (especially so in discussions of capitalist economies), so I’m not sure why you’d be so confused by it.
Or was it my earlier comments regarding the sub-5% support that ACT has, making them reliant on John Banks winning Epsom?
Comment by The PC Avenger — July 9, 2011 @ 10:09 pm
Yeah, piss off nonsensical numpties. That includes you McLaughlin, you ditch dwelling tardo. Why you haven’t been banned from this site is anyone’s guess. You’re always polluting it with your so called “posts”. James wins again!
Comment by Guy Smiley — July 9, 2011 @ 10:16 pm
It’s your laboured manner of expression and lack of respect for the English language that irritate.
Oh yes, I finally realised who James reminds me of: Comic Book Guy on The Simpsons… except that he’s nowhere near as articulate.
It’s the pomposity, the exquisite corpse-like construction of his sentences and the pretense to quasi-Masonic knowledge of a cargo-cult imitation of philosophy that has us all snickering… but the funniest thing of all is that he’s forgotten the cardinal rule of comedy: that people with no sense of humour are the funniest of all. Rand forbids even the vaguest acknowledgement of the possibility of the potential hypothetical sketch of the rudiments of a sense of humour because somehow it is an affront to one’s own essential dignity. To see this naked Emperor pirouetting with the complete assurance that he is the Nureyev of rhetoric is priceless.
And Andrew, yes, it is, isn’t it? He has no self-awareness whatsoever.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 9, 2011 @ 10:16 pm
Ahem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exquisite_corpse
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 9, 2011 @ 10:21 pm
This for example:
Maori representation in itself re Maori property …no. …Uber Maori casting vote domination…you bet numpty!
Breton would love it. William S. Burroughs and Brion Gysin could barely do better. It could well be that when Jimbo the Randroid decries the lack of intellectual quality here, he’s right – he could in fact be a genius with surrealist and cut-up techniques of writing.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 9, 2011 @ 10:27 pm
. . . people with no sense of humour are the funniest of all. Rand forbids even the vaguest acknowledgement of the possibility of the potential hypothetical sketch of the rudiments of a sense of humour because somehow it is an affront to one’s own essential dignity.
Rand said that to laugh at yourself is like spitting in your own face. Anyway James’s material certainly improves with age. Who can forget those heady intellectual peaks when he claimed that Saint Rodney could “walk into a six-figure job tomorrow”? Panned out great, diddinit:
http://liberation.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451d75d69e201538e5f3e50970b-pi
Comment by Joe Wylie — July 9, 2011 @ 10:34 pm
So you can’t refute Brash….? No surprise.
Comment by James — July 9, 2011 @ 10:35 pm
I take that to mean you really don’t understand what ‘zero-sum’ means in this context, or any other.
Comment by The PC Avenger — July 9, 2011 @ 10:38 pm
I flossed my teeth the other day and then I said “wibble”. Nobody refuted that profound piece of performance art, inspired by the universe itself, therefore it it was a deeply moving and insightful commentary on the state of humankind upon this barren fishburger uber-sunset refrigerator. I also did not invent the wheel last Wednesday, therefore wheels are impossible. I did not issue a complete deconstruction of the Jacobite cause, therefore the Jacobites are unassailable.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 9, 2011 @ 10:43 pm
Actually, I didn’t say “wibble”. I lied. I’m sorry. I am so very, very sorry as I have completely undermined everything I and everything everyone has ever said in every one of their entire lives in this and every other fractal iteration of possibility in this proliferating multiverse of possibilities.
This is of course based on my highly contingent assumption that the many-worlds interpretation of the Schroedinger’s Cat thought experiment is correct – the universe was a bit evasive about whether it is a UNI-verse in the sense that it is a solitary monad or a bundle of potentialities that last time it dropped by to borrow a fiver. I’m so confused and really, it’s a relief to have the Paranoid Randroid on hand to remind me of the essentials – such as the fact that if something is not fully and succinctly explained in a specific blog thread and appended with the stock phrase “the universe told me so”, it must therefore be wrong and therefore Brash is right… or something.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 9, 2011 @ 10:55 pm
Umm, where’s the ACT promoter statement in the ad? (tho it seems the last line of the ad’s yellow band is cut off).
Brash is being quite MMP-savvy here. He does not care if 95% of the voters think he is a racist nutter, so long as 5% or more say ‘hell yeh, Brash is saying what we’re thinking’ and party vote ACT.
To some extent, ACT party members don’t even care if National is govt next time – what is important to them is that ACT gets in to Parliament to act as the ginger group forcing the Nats to the right. Otherwise, they see Key and Nats as traitors.
And Brash is getting lots of media coverage for this – what’s that old PR line: “any publicity is good publicity”? Best to ignore Brash and ACT and let them wither in the dark.
Comment by bob — July 9, 2011 @ 11:25 pm
“ditch dwelling tardo”. I am going to save that up for our indoor netball final tomorrow. Sledging of that order would bring a tear to Ricky Ponting’s eye.
Comment by Sanctuary — July 9, 2011 @ 11:34 pm
The rest of the line, “except your own obituary” is too often forgotten.
The problem is for Act is that they have made themselves a stick with which National can be beaten. Brash may think that is a good thing, but every time Key presents himself as lovable smile-and-wave John without ruling out Brasch/Perigo, anyone will be free to say that he tacitly supports Brash while he and Goff have ruled out Hone… and in the farthest reaches of my own personal fantasyland where journalists actually do the jobs they claim to do, the Maori party is going to be asked why they would be part of a coalition with that man and will look very gormless indeed with any answer other than “No”.
I can appreciate Key’s strategy from the post-election period, where National was to be the “natural party of government”, one that was not too radical and willing to compromise, but associating with radicals of such divergent stripes will undermine that… oh, I love this word… aspiration.
As an aside, I’ve been watching the old BBC Le Carre adaptations recently, and a line from Smiley regarding Karla in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy struck me. Someone says that the Westerners are weak, too willing to compromise according to principles, but George Smiley snaps back in response, words to the effect that no, his enemy’s weakness is that he’s a fanatic and that unwillingness to compromise will be his ultimate downfall. Brash thinks that he speaks truth to power and that he is a man driven by principles that are themselves as pure as the driven snow, but that intrinsic inability to compromise means that he will be a perpetual embarrassment to a National Party wanting to present itself as centrist and yet which everyone knows will depend on coalition arangements.
Of course that cuts both ways, and Labour will have to consider what that means too.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 9, 2011 @ 11:56 pm
Brash may think that is a good thing . . .
To suggest that Brash stands for anything perpetuates the pious fraud that he’s somehow his own man. Remember Gerry Brownlee as his parliamentary minder during his Nat leader phase, prompting him when to rise, stand and genuflect? Or John Ansell’s gloating claim to have guided the faltering hand as Brash materialised before the adoring saddos in Kiwiblog’s comments thread. Then there was Michael Bassett’s glowing review of the Orewa speech, which it turned out he’d largely written.
Brash is supposedly able to manage massive spreadsheets entirely in his head, which probably makes him very happy. It’s charitable to assume that’s what he was doing in that blissfully iconic shot taken at Rod Donald’s funeral. In a truly humane world the old duffer would be left to his simple pleasures, rather than having his sorry carcass dragged out and riddled with Perigoesque parasites,
Comment by Joe Wylie — July 10, 2011 @ 12:18 am
90 plus percent of Kiwis will agree with what Brash is saying about this apartheid shit and be happy someone’s telling it like it is….suck on that Comrade yappies.
Comment by James — July 10, 2011 @ 12:36 am
Oh Joe, you’re talking about mere reality, not what the universe itself says. Any dupe, in order to truly be a dupe, has to believe that they are thinking for themselves. Act is a vehicle for his fantasies, and to him, it will seem perfect for that role.
Of course, to make my argument irrefutable, I’m afraid that I’m going to have to call you a dipshit, a numpty and so on. Please don’t take it personally – it’s just what the universe itself says (you know, it really can be quite gauche and even an abrasive prick at times).
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 10, 2011 @ 12:38 am
James, dear boy, “Kiwis”? Why this appeal to the fiction of patriotism and national identity? Isn’t any identification with a group collectivism?
Really, don’t you realise that all of the cells of your body are slaves to the collective fiction of “James” and should immediately disintegrate, each then being free to pursue their own destiny, not even bound by the awful collectivist label of “sludge”?
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 10, 2011 @ 12:43 am
Rhino, I’m a cunt’s cunt.
Comment by Joe Wylie — July 10, 2011 @ 12:43 am
Oh hang on, let’s look at the maths. Act was supposed to get 40% of the vote. Now it’s 90%?
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 10, 2011 @ 12:45 am
Actually Joe, being a lefty scumbag dipshit and so on, I have to say that your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries… or was it the other way around?
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 10, 2011 @ 12:46 am
James, and then they’ll go on to vote for every other party that isn’t ACT. What tells me this? Objective reality of course. ACT is, as you seem to be oblivious of, still languishing at the level of irrelevancy. Even the often loved by ACToids website ‘ipredict’ has them at about 4.5% support.
That’s the reality James. It’s time for you to grow up and accept it.
Comment by The PC Avenger — July 10, 2011 @ 12:53 am
Elderberries are what killed the old cunt, you insensitive leftard tit.
(How the fuck did he know?)
Comment by Joe Wylie — July 10, 2011 @ 12:53 am
PC Avenger, reality is not the universe, or the universe is not reality.
Something like that.
You know, the universe dropped by just this afternoon again, performing its usual non-Euclidean trick of manifesting as a rather ordinary human, who incidentally looks and sounds a bit like Michael Caine, despite being literally infinite and all-encompassing, explained it all to me in a quite charming Cockney accent. The apparent fact that Act is polling within the margin of error (implying that it could actually get a negative number of votes) while still being enormously popular is directly analogous with its own ability to be both infinite, encompassing the vast, gigaparsec-wide scale of the cosmos with all the wonders of quasars and dark matter and the Planck-scale uncertainty of quantum phenomena and yet simultaneously manifest itself banal human form and dictate in ridiculously puerile and simplistic terms on human socio-economic relationships and the likelihood of a particular horse winning a race tomorrow.
It is really, really amazing, the fact that James can connect the turbulence of the chromosphere of Betelgeuse in its pre-supernova phase with the irrefutable fact that Alasdair Thompson is saying it is like it is and the fact that everyone except a minority of ten percent of liberal fucktard commies won’t vote for Act.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 10, 2011 @ 1:10 am
Seeing James skewered repeatedly never gets old for some reason. It should, but somehow it just stays funny. I think it’s because he really doesn’t understand what’s going on. Perhaps the universe is hiding it from him as a practical joke. Is that cruel? Deep.
Comment by Guy Smiley — July 10, 2011 @ 10:49 am
‘Any state directed bias towards one group must,by simple cause and effect ,disadvantage another’
@ James; Just like if I take my kids to the fair then somewhere, somehow some kids are missing out of going to the fair. Is that how your argument works?
And who are Maori? That must be a difficult one for you because the first step in whipping up a lynch mob is to clearly identify those you hate.
Comment by ieuan — July 10, 2011 @ 11:03 am
Maori, according to Brash, are like Schroedinger’s Cat – they’re in a state of quantum superimposition where they simultaneously don’t exist and are holding back New Zealand. When someone opens the box they’re in, then they’ll be either one or the other (in this universe, anyway).
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 10, 2011 @ 11:14 am
I have Maori tattoos, but I’m 100% Pakeha, so please James, just ask before you round me up with the others and force me into the cultural deprogramming camp.
Comment by Dizzy — July 10, 2011 @ 11:58 am
Maori are destorying this country. We pander to them too much. They need tough love.
We need to get rid of all the wasted funding for special Maori incentives, Maori initiatives, Te Reo etc.
hell 60 million of tax payers money was wasted on Te Reo alone last year and thats set to rise drastically next year.
I have French heritage, I dont see anyone funding me to learn my french heritage.
There are so many racist one sided policies in place to help Maori and the majority of NZers have had a gut ful of it.
Just watch ACT rise in the polls..
ACT will get my vote.
Comment by Jason Woody — July 10, 2011 @ 9:10 pm
Yeah Jason, because ACT’s position on Maori has, up to now, been an absolute mystery to voters.
Comment by The PC Avenger — July 10, 2011 @ 9:19 pm
I suspect Act were always getting your vote Jason. Knock yourself out. Given what Ansell has to say about women, Act will get a woody, but not much else.
Comment by Guy Smiley — July 10, 2011 @ 9:31 pm
I dont see anyone funding me to learn my french heritage.
Comment by Jason Woody
No, you learned your traditional mistrust of brown people and immigrants for free.
Of course, you come from a culture that puts aside vast sums of money to ensure that its language has cultural primacy within its borders and to ensure its survival against the global Anglophone hegemony, so I don’t suppose you could really understand how important Te Reo is to Maori…
Comment by Dizzy — July 10, 2011 @ 9:58 pm
I have French heritage, I dont see anyone funding me to learn my french heritage.
Actually I think most NZ universities have a French Dept. And there’s Frnace as well I guess -
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/min/index-min.htm
Comment by Richard — July 10, 2011 @ 10:13 pm
I have French heritage, I dont see anyone funding me to learn my french heritage.
Actually I think most NZ universities have a French Dept. And there’s France as well I guess -
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/min/index-min.htm
Comment by Richard — July 10, 2011 @ 10:13 pm
Double post – oops.
Comment by Richard — July 10, 2011 @ 10:14 pm
dizzy, maori language is not important.. It’s a hobby. Without the english language, NZ would be a back water toilet bowel.
With out Te-Reo NZ and Maori would survive well..
Te Reo is only important to Maori. It’s not important to the rest of us and why should it be. I couldn’t care less if it died out. If maori want to keep it alive, let them, but not at the cost to us.
We have Chinese born NZers, do we promote their language? No, they teach themselves.
IF we are to have equality why dont we promote and spend millions on Chinese?
Oh thats right, Maori are special and Chinese are just second rate NZ citizens along with all the rest of us.
Well llet me tell you, Maori are not special and should not get special privledges, they have two eyes, two legs and two arms, just like the rest of us. The colour of their skin shouldnt give them rights over every one else.
It’s about time we got a politician with balls, like Don Brash that is prepared to speak up for us. Just watch his rise in the polls..
Good bye maori party and good bye mana party. Both those racist redneck Maori parties are now not going to be able to get a foot in the door.
Thank god!
Comment by Jason Woody — July 10, 2011 @ 10:29 pm
Meanwhile, back in the real world: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5263692/Greens-flying-high-at-Labours-expense
“However, another recent change – Don Brash taking the ACT leadership from Rodney Hide – has not seen a boost with ACT winning 1.7 per cent support.”
But hey, when you’re that low, the only way is up right?
Comment by The PC Avenger — July 10, 2011 @ 10:32 pm
“However, another recent change – Don Brash taking the ACT leadership from Rodney Hide – has not seen a boost with ACT winning 1.7 per cent support.”
haha, just watch come next election.. If Don and ACT dont take a huge leap come next elections, I’ll eat my hat and keep my big fat trap shut for ever more. I cant believe the people of N/z wont take the chance to show they finally have had a complete and utter gutful of all this racist maori crap.
Comment by Jason Woody — July 10, 2011 @ 10:45 pm
Woody,
Ignoring the remainder of your ignorant rant (see what I did there?):
- Chinese speakers – approximately 1.3 billion
- French speakers – native – 70-110 million, second-language – 265-270 million
- Te reo Maori speakers (conversational) – 157,110.
That’s not counting the territories it’s spoken in either, which clearly include more countries than one.
Personally, I prefer to celebrate what separates us from other drab monocultures.
Comment by Patrick — July 10, 2011 @ 11:30 pm
Here’s what Im talking about…
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10737452
and your idea of drab and mine could be miles apart..
I guess I wouldnt call a bunch of bare ass Maori’s with bulging eyes, bare asses and tounges sticking out drab.. But definitely not my cup of tea.
Give me a gentle Aisian any day..
Comment by Jason Woody — July 10, 2011 @ 11:36 pm
Te Reo is important to me. I’m not Maori.
It’s not important to you because you have a very limited understanding of the language and culture, and you’re someone who’s apparently convinced of the superiority of white culture over Maori. There’s a word for people who believe in the superiority of one culture over the other. Can you guess what it is?
Maori are tangata whenua. The Chinese are not, and neither are Samoans or Tongans or Tuvalese. Maori have no other place of origin and they have nowhere they can go back to. This is their land, with the nub of the argument being that they agreed to share it on the basis of a misunderstanding. Regardless of what you believe, and regardless of what you perceive other people believe in your steel ball of a mind, it’s correct and proper that these greivances are addressed and that resolutions are reached.
What’s good for Maori is good for NZ. Ignoring the de facto status of Maori as NZ’s most deprived group ignores the immense wrongs that have been done to them over the past 150 years.
But then again, you’re some kind of dick, so writing this has been a pointless exercise.
Comment by Dizzy — July 11, 2011 @ 12:13 am
What exactly is a “gentle Aisian” [sic]? Sounds like a special deal you might get on Vivian street.
Comment by Phil — July 11, 2011 @ 10:05 am
“What’s good for Maori is good for NZ.”
This is really the thing. Improvement off a low base is comparatively cheap & easy. Here we have ~15% of the population who’re underperforming in nearly every respect. Keeping them poor and unhealthy and uneducated and disgruntled isn’t just morally and historically and ethically wrong; it’s economically absurd.
L
Comment by Lew — July 11, 2011 @ 10:12 am
dizzy, your ignorance astounds me.
Firstly, my limited understanding of Maori cultre has nothing to do with anything. There are thousands of cultures and languages in the world. None are more special than others. All are special in their own way. This is why your bigoted and racist. You believe Maori to be special. They are just another race among many many more just as we Europeans are.
I do not think Europeans are superior to Maori. Again, just an ignorant comment from you. There are plenty of Maori that are wonderful intelligent people that are just as intelligent if not more so than Europeans. Does that sound racist to you? I have lots of Maori friends and family that I love dearly, but I don’t think your ideology that Maori are superior or deserve a special place in the world is right.
All should be held equal.Cant you understand, your the one that’s racist. Your the one that thinks Maori’s are superior or deserve a special place in the world.
As for Maori being Tangata Whenua. Abosolute b.s.
I am born in bred in NZ. This is my land just as much as theirs.. No other person or culture has any more rights than I do. End of story.
And where have I ever said that any grievances shouldn’t be addressed. Your ignorance is showing again.
My thoughts are lets get these treaty settlements over and done with so we can get on with life as NZers.
And why are we letting immigrants in to this country if we are going to treat them as second rate citizens. If there are special needs for Maori, then the special needs of all races should be met. once entrenched in NZ, immigrants are NZers.
If you could use some logic, you would understand, that the right to be treated equally is a basic human right!
Don Brash is dead right. One law for all. So dont ever try to tell me I’m a second rate citizen or have lesser rights than anyone else in my own country.
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 10:13 am
I do apologize for post 104. A few beers, half cut and feeling a little cheeky.. Agreed, a bit over the top. For that I do apologise.
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 10:15 am
I have French heritage, I dont see anyone funding me to learn my french heritage.
Actually I think most NZ universities have a French Dept. And there’s France as well I guess -
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/culture/min/index-min.htm
Comment by Richard — July 10, 2011 @ 10:13 pm
I wonder if Maori would be happy to the french language and french culture forced upon them just the Maori are currently doing to us Kiwis..
I also wonder if French language and culture would be of more benefit to Maori, than maori would be to the rest of us NZers..
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 10:20 am
“I wonder if Maori would be happy to the french language and french culture forced upon them just the Maori are currently doing to us Kiwis..”
Boy oh boy – that statement really says it all, doesn’t it? Iwi vs Kiwi, indeed!
I think you might find, Jason, that Maori wouldn’t be all that happy having French forced on them – just as they weren’t all that happy at having English forced on them.
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 11, 2011 @ 10:38 am
I doubt English was forced upon the maori. I bet you’ll find they learned it willingly and probably should be now grateful that they did as where would they be with out it..
The problem you are missing is probably where Maori were not allowed to speak their own language at school for some years. I agree, that was extremely bad and wrong, but nothing to do with current NZers Im glad to say..
One thing I am glad that has come out of this conversation is that people like you are finally starting to get it. That for Maori in this current day and age to try and force their language on us is wrong.
And if by chance you are right and English was forced upon Maori, then Im really glad that you do understand, that two wrongs, do not make a right. Learning some one else’s language and culture should be an option, not something shoved down our throats.
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 10:45 am
or are you saying two wrongs do make a right? :-p
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 10:48 am
Notice how James has stopped and Jason has started?
Similar syntax, similar disregard for facts, similar idiocy.
Comment by Gregor W — July 11, 2011 @ 11:13 am
Jason, no one is forced to learn Maori. If its existence some how offends you, then, uh, don’t listen when you hear people speaking it.
Comment by The PC Avenger — July 11, 2011 @ 11:16 am
#114 no.. but I notice how stupid that post was.
#115. Another ignorant post. Where have I ever stated Maori offends me? As they say, ignorance is bliss eh?
http://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/article/?id=23572
http://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/news/5126692/Teachers-must-learn-te-reo-Maori
And you can take your foot out of your mouth now..
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 11:31 am
I stand corrected. But heaven forbid teachers learn something that will help them engage with a systematically under performing section of youth. Next thing someone will suggest that people who teach Deaf students should be able to speak in NZSL.
The first link isn’t exactly supportive of your argument anyway, and highlights your own double-standard regarding it.
“He says there is no need to use words such as “mandatory or compulsory” but te reo needs to be treated with the same mana, respect and status as English.”
What is so wrong with that?
Comment by The PC Avenger — July 11, 2011 @ 11:49 am
Jason,
Why is it bad to require teachers to be somewhat conversant in one of NZ’s official languages? Oh, I know … you’ll say “te reo shouldn’t be an official language”. So here’s some reading for you to do on the subject: http://www.waitangi-tribunal.govt.nz/reports/view.asp?reportID=6113B0B0-13B5-400A-AFC7-76F76D3DDD92
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 11, 2011 @ 11:54 am
to put it simply. there are a lot of NZers that have no interest in Te Reo. Just as most Maori have no interest in Mandarin.
Our Chinese population in NZ is growing fast. Should we all be forced to start learning Chinese as well?
All of NZ can converse in English. English is a universal language. We don’t have to learn other languages.
To learn Maori is only to appease Maori. There is no other reason for it.
Im against something that is of no importance to me, of no use to me, being forced upon me. I would have thought that was very simple plain common sense.
Would Maori want the Chinese language to become compulsory for them? If so, what about Korean langauge and Indian etc etc.
We are now a multicultural country after all.
Think about it, we all can speak English. The only need to be able to speak Maori, is because it is what a few Maori radicals want.. Jeez, I have lots of friends that are Maori that are not interested in speaking Te Reo.
And something else to think about, if you force people to do something they dont want to do, they’ll rebel.
Leave the doors open for them, and they just may take a little peek through the door and like what they see..
Te Reo as an option, most definitely. But compulsory is ridiculous. Hell, if any language is going to be compulsory, what about Mandarin?
Now that Chinese are fast becoming our biggest trading partner, it would even do Maori good to learn Mandarin.
I think it’s a matter of putting logic before the heart..
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 12:07 pm
Andrew you’re being irrbrashional. Don’t you know the Treaty only exists because the British wanted to prevent a bloodbath and save Nga Puhi from advancing southern tribes looking for utu? (sorry Jason, revenge. Didn’t mean to shove that down your throat) This fact doesn’t appear in any history book from any era because of a government conspiracy – the Brownwashing of history.
Comment by Newtown News — July 11, 2011 @ 12:14 pm
#120.. so your saying the British were trying to do a good thing and save the Southern Tribes from Nga Puhi?..
I must admit, I dont know Maori history and dont really care to but I find your comments hard to believe.
I think its’ more likely the British were going to be acquiring land in NZ and settling people here regardless of whether Maori liked it or not. Signing a treaty was an easy way for them to get in with out having to fight..
I think Maori probably signed the treaty because they knew if they didn’t, the British were going to come anyway. And if it was with out the treaty, Maori probably would have got really hammered and had ALL their lands stolen, similar to what happened to the poor old American Indians.
Im agree, I’m only guessing, but I think my version sounds more logical..
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 12:53 pm
# 117 so your saying under performing Maori students cant speak English.. nonesense… All maori can communicate in English.
If your going to make comments, try to use some logic please.
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 12:58 pm
We are now a multicultural country after all.
I think you will find that, in law, we are a bi-cultural country.
However, I will defer to Andrew G and/or Graeme E regarding the specifics.
Comment by Gregor W — July 11, 2011 @ 12:59 pm
“so your saying under performing Maori students cant speak English.. nonesense… All maori can communicate in English.
If your going to make comments, try to use some logic please.”
Whereas you don’t seem to be able to comprehend English, or think logically, since I made no such claim.
It does not follow from “Knowing Maori will help engagement with Maori students” that “Maori don’t know English”.
Comment by The PC Avenger — July 11, 2011 @ 1:13 pm
ok, so if that’s the case, what do you mean by “learn something”
Please do tell, What can teachers possibly learn from being forced to study te reo that will actually help under achieving Maori?
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 1:27 pm
You mean like the very things outlined in the stuff article you cited? Did you even read your own source?
Comment by The PC Avenger — July 11, 2011 @ 1:37 pm
Jason – language is the window to culture.
Call me crazy, but maybe having teachers a little more versed in language and cultural traditions (as teachers are expected to have an understanding of NZ European culture by default) might assist in getting the best out of their pupils.
Comment by Gregor W — July 11, 2011 @ 1:41 pm
Gregor W,
I think the current debate (or, maybe, “debate”) can be variously seen as (i) whether we ARE a bi-cultural society (as opposed to a mono-cultural one that graciously allows other cultures a bit of room to have their odd little ceremonies); or (ii) to what extent we OUGHT TO be a bi-cultural society (as opposed to a mono-cultural one that graciously allows other cultures a bit of room to have their odd little ceremonies); or (iii) how CAN we be a bi-cultural society without the Maoris making me speak their jibber-jabber (even if they still graciously allow other cultures a bit of room to have their odd little ceremonies).
Jason,
There’s lots of different reasons for learning a language … practical and symbolic. So, for instance, many European nations “force” their kids to learn English due to it being the current (and ironic) lingua franca of the globe. Many of those same European kids learn a third or fourth or fifth language on top of this, due to being in regular contact with speakers of those languages (think the Finns and Swedish, or the Portuguese and Spanish). Equally, a number of countries “force” their kids to learn a national language even though it is not widely used in day-to-day life because of the importance that language is thought to have for the nation’s culture – the Irish and Gaelic, or the Welsh and Cymraeg, or Canadians and French (outside of Quebec, of course).
So to say “why teach te reo as a compulsory language – it’s no use!’ kind of misses the point. No-one is saying that learning te reo in itself will supercharge Kiwi kids for the global business world (although note that learning another language – any other language – as a child has been shown to have real educational benefits across the board, whilst the existence of Maori culture is one of the points of difference that makes NZ interesting to much of the outside world). Rather, the argument is that as te reo was the first language of this place, a language that literally grew here in response to things that exist nowhere else in the world, then as citizens of here we should all have some familiarity with it. So to say “that’s just Maori stuff, nothing to do with me as a Kiwi” is to ignore such an important part of what NZ is that completely mischaracterizes what being “a Kiwi” is. Which perhaps is what the argument really comes down to … what does it mean to be “a Kiwi” in today’s world?
FInally, all education involves a degree of coercion. You get forced to learn science because it is thought necessary for a full understanding of how the world “really” works. You get forced to learn English literature because it is thought necessary to give you an understanding of the cultural (incidentally – do you think it is wrong to force the children of Chinese immigrants to study Shakespeare?). So bitching about kids being “forced” to learn te reo misses the point … if it is thought to be educationally beneficial (for whatever reason), then of course kids will be made to learn it. ‘Cause that’s what education does.
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 11, 2011 @ 1:51 pm
Andrew, thats all bollocks.
.
You want millions of people to learn a language, just because you say it was the first language here.. Are you mad?
I was looking for a reason that had some common sense behind it. I have better things to do with my time than to learn a language that is of no use to me. I have better things to do with my time than to learn a language that I dont care about.
If i was going to learn a language, it would be one that I could use. That would actually make practical sense to me.
what you guys have to get over is this racist push for things Maori want. The world does not revolve around them. This is exactly why so many Europeans are angry. So much racist crap from these idiot radical maori’s these days pushing their agendas. We have had a gutsful of it.
Bring it on Don Brash. You are exactly what NZ needs right now. Thank god we have a politician that is prepared to stand up and tell it like it is.
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 2:33 pm
Jason, why would you use common sense to justify anything? It’s quite literally reasoning based on ignorance. Why would you want to be ignorant?
Anyway, it’s becoming increasingly apparent that reasonable, rational conversation is not possible with you. But I offer this in the hopes it will give you the sense of perspective that you sorely need.
“what you guys have to get over is this racist push for things Europeans want. The world does not revolve around them. This is exactly why so many Maori are angry. So much racist crap from these idiot radical Europeans these days pushing their agendas.”
Comment by The PC Avenger — July 11, 2011 @ 2:42 pm
Jason,
I did you the courtesy of trying to discuss this with you. But as you seem to think I’m “mad”, then there ain’t much point, is there? So rather than waste my time on someone who (sorry to say) hasn’t proven himself worth the effort of talking to, we’ll see just how well Don Brash’s message resonates with all those “angry Europeans” (who seem an awful long way away from Europe, fwiiw) come election time.
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 11, 2011 @ 2:51 pm
racist policies from Maori abound.. There are literally hundreds of examples.
where are the examples of white man’s racist policies? Oh thats right, they are racist for thinking racist maori policies are not ok..
Why dont you guys go apply for a job on the statutory Maori council in Auckland. Im sure you would all fit right in.
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 3:15 pm
“There are literally hundreds of examples.”
gosh really? shouldnt be too hard for you to front with some examples and explanations of why then should it?
Comment by framu — July 11, 2011 @ 3:18 pm
@ Jason
Can you, literally, give us one example of ‘rascist policies from Maori’?
I’m not suggesting that they don’t necessarily exist (I’m no legislative wonk) but I just want to check that you are operating from a fact base rather than, I don’t know, just making it up.
Comment by Gregor W — July 11, 2011 @ 3:23 pm
Act and section would be fine. No need to be exhaustive.
Comment by Gregor W — July 11, 2011 @ 3:24 pm
Perhaps Jason/James can move to iPredict and make millions off his assertions of ACT support being translated into votes. Or perhaps he’s not putting money where his mouth is?
Comment by Owen — July 11, 2011 @ 3:39 pm
be back on tonight with more examples.. a quick one. Im busy at the mo..
statutory Maori council in Auckland for one.
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 4:50 pm
well to be fair – AFAIK – the statutory maori council isnt really “from” maori
its got more to do with the rushed work of Rodney Hide when setting up the super city
Comment by framu — July 11, 2011 @ 5:10 pm
You mean this bit?
Local Government (Auckland Council) Act 2009 No 32 (as at 10 May 2011), Public Act
This Part establishes a board whose purpose is to assist the Auckland Council to make decisions, perform functions, and exercise powers by—
(a) promoting cultural, economic, environmental, and social issues of significance for—
(i) mana whenua groups; and
(ii) mataawaka of Tamaki Makaurau; and
(b) ensuring that the Council acts in accordance with statutory provisions referring to the Treaty of Waitangi.
Section 81: added, on 1 November 2010, by section 31 of the Local Government (Auckland Council) Amendment Act 2010 (2010 No 36).
Wow. Sounds a bit rascist, complying with the statutory obligations of the Treaty of Waitangi and all. It’s not like that applies to pretty much every piece of legislation or anything.
Comment by Gregor W — July 11, 2011 @ 5:14 pm
Jason @121: My facts are indisputable. I get them from reading Ansell comments on Kiwiblog. His arguments are so powerful it’s not necessary to talk about them.
Comment by Newtown News — July 11, 2011 @ 7:27 pm
Jason is some sort of regeneration of James. A bit odd, but perhaps he was sick of being schooled. Kind of dishonest though.
Comment by Guy Smiley — July 11, 2011 @ 8:12 pm
# 141. No I am not James.. god, your in a stoopid forum… lol… what difference does it make if im James or mary or Jason… hell, you could be Hone Harawira for all I know.. grow up..
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 10:50 pm
The syntax just gave it away. You’ve been unmasked, James.
Comment by Gregor W — July 11, 2011 @ 10:54 pm
# 143.. ok, you got me.. Im really james.. Unless you want to pay me.. pay me enough and I’ll be mary for you if you want… lol
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 10:58 pm
141. school me baby, school me.. lol
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 10:59 pm
Jason isn’t me….. This is my first comment here in two days I think.I have a life elsewhere you know.
Comment by James — July 11, 2011 @ 10:59 pm
try telling me Maori party and Mana party are not racist..
Maori initiated, and run and there for Maori and not NZ as a whole.. Anyone that says that isn’t racist is off their rocker..
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 11:00 pm
Hell, we are not even good enough to work in or be inmates in their jails… lol
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/2371354/Maori-only-jail-plan-explored
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 11:03 pm
146, besides, your probably not as good looking as me… lol
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 11:04 pm
more examples of racisim from Maori..
And why do we not see European only business enterprise or funding or education etc, oh thats right that would be racist wouldnt it.
http://www.tpk.govt.nz/en/services/business/
http://www.maoribusinessnetwork.com.au/aboutus
http://turanga-ararau.org.nz/?page_id=165
https://www.dunedin.govt.nz/services/business-support/support-for-industries-and-across-otago/maori-business-support
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 11:06 pm
and Im only getting warmed up.
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/nga-umanga-maori-business-enterprise/2
http://www.poutama.co.nz/
http://www.ahyjedu.com/maori-business-grants.php
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 11:07 pm
and I have only picked on business area for a quick google…
I could google free maori education, maori funding, maori initiatives, Maori health care, etc etc etc.
If those links above were exactly the same thing, but called pakeha instead of Maori just imagine the stink that would be kicked up…
we would be called racist as…
Comment by Jason Woody — July 11, 2011 @ 11:10 pm
Having separate prisons operating with a Maori cultural flavour sounds like a good idea to me. Having wardens (whether Maori or non-Maori) trained in Maori cultural beliefs could encourage Maori prisoners to re-engage with their heritage and give them a non-criminal community to join when they get out of prison.
I haven’t seen any evidence that Maori cultural prisons are going to be more expensive to run than regular prisons, and if they reduce re-offending then this will actually benefit all New Zealanders. Deciding who will be employed in the prisons won’t be race-based, it will be based on ability. A Pakeha who grew up in a predominantly Maori community who understands Maori cultural traditions will make a much better warden than a Maori who has no understanding of Maori culture. And I’m sure if a non-Maori prisoner wanted to be put in a Maori prison and learn Maori traditions no one would stop them.
I don’t consider Maori and non-Maori to be about what colour skin your ancestors had, it’s about which culture you identify with. And I don’t think the Maori Party is racist. They’re not against non-Maori. They just want to promote Maori culture.
Comment by Newtown News — July 12, 2011 @ 7:04 am
jason woody
ooh youve found some maori focused initiatives – but theres no explanation as to why they are racist. Why are you asking others to figure out your reasoning? (or is this way to powerful to need an explanation?)
For bonus points – what do you call everything else in business that isnt specifically maori focused?
Comment by framu — July 12, 2011 @ 10:01 am
haven’t run away.. I have plenty more to say on this subject… Just busy.. but I will be back with in the next couple of days.. There’s a lot more about all this racist crap i want to get off my chest..
Just a quick couple of comments.. If your going to run programs which exclude any one that isn’t Maori. It’s racist. No ifs, No buts.
If some one started an White Person only funding for business studies, could you imagine the outcry to be had..
And all the excuses about Maori culture being to blame or the reason for what ever are just rot. Absolute bullshit.
I spent my life bought up with Maori. I have lived with Maori all my life. Lots of my friends and family are Maori.
Maori have two arms, two legs, a nose just like the rest of us. They are not that different. And unless they were born 150 years ago, they have the same culture as us. Do you all think Maori these days are bought up on some far off bush covered land with out phones and cars and tv’s and education and then they get shipped here with out any knowledge of NZ culture or something.
I haven’t met a Maori yet I have ever had any trouble communicating with.
Maori these days are just as, if not more business savvy and intelligent than any other race. Maybe Maori are far more lucky than the rest of us that they have their current NZ culture and their old Culture from 150 years back to fall back on.
to keep hiding behind this culture bull shit is absurd.
And yes, I’ll be back… Just something to keep you going with till return…
Comment by Jason Woody — July 12, 2011 @ 10:29 pm
Jason if Maori have the same culture as Pakeha and if they get all these government-sponsored advantages, why don’t you just tick the box that says you’re Maori when you fill out any form? There’s nothing to stop you doing it. No one can prove you don’t have Maori ancestors. They don’t do DNA tests FFS. Why don’t you try pretending to be Maori and see just how many extra government handouts you get? I think you’ll find the benefits of being Maori are highly exaggerated.
Comment by Newtown News — July 12, 2011 @ 11:40 pm
You know James, it’s dishonest and quite bizarre behaviour to start posting under another name and then deny it. Did you feel you needed a new start after all that earlier embarrassment? How many times have you done this?
Comment by Guy Smiley — July 13, 2011 @ 8:34 am
ok, guy smiley, just for you, I’ll be James…. There you go, you dont have to feel Im hiding anything now… lol
As for how many times have I done this.. As many as you want me to have.. You pick the number and I’ll just go along with it to keep you happy..
Now run along and take your meds..
Comment by Jason Woody (aka James for any one that wants me to be) — July 13, 2011 @ 9:40 am
#156, either your missing the point or i’m not explaining myself well.
To put it in a nutshell, here’s how I feel.
And when I say maori, I’m not talking all Maori. I think probably most Maori are not racist and are good people.
I believe Maori’s like the Mana party, the Maori party, the activists and radicals want all others in NZ to be second rate citizens. Maori are pushing for as much control and benefit for themeselves as they can get and to hell with the rest of NZ. They think they deserve more because they were here first.. Well 2nd to Morihori’s acutally. Anyway, they tend to forget, as NZers born and bred regardless of whether we are white pink chinese or african. If we are NZ born we want equal rights. We deserve equal rights. This is why a lot of NZers have had enough of this racist bullshit.
And there you have it in a nutshell.
Take Hone as a great example, I bet if he had his way, and he could get away with it, all non Maori would be gone from NZ in the blink of an eye lid.
Comment by Jason Woody (aka James for any one that wants me to be) — July 13, 2011 @ 4:40 pm
You didn’t really answer my question. If you or anyone else wants these ‘special rights’ that are apparently everywhere, just claim to be Maori and get them. There’s nothing stopping you, Don Brash, or anyone else from doing this.
And the Moriori aren’t pre-Maori. There’s a scholarly consensus now that they were a Maori tribe, but one that became distinct from the others because they were isolated on the Chatham Islands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriori_people
Comment by Newtown News — July 14, 2011 @ 7:19 am
#160.
Because your question or that comment is pointless. As I have stated, its not all about Maori getting special privileges. Even if it was, I shouldn’t have to pretend to be some one else to get equal rights in my own country..
As for the Moriori being pre Maori. Let me get this right. You are saying its ok, that Maori stole and claimed some one else’s land for their own because they were of the same ethnicity? I know this did happen a lot, but we are not talking about somewhere, where the waters are muddy. We are not talking something that is hard to sort out. It’s all there in black and white. Moriori were the first settlers in NZ and had their land stolen and got eaten in the process.
And remember we are not talking morally, we are talking legally. Remember we are going by today’s laws as it’s today’s laws that Maori are using to get their land back.
Ok, so if my neighbor is an European, then it’s ok for me to go next door, kill him and claim his land. Well he is of the same tribe as I. The same ethnicity. So I should legally then be able to claim his land. Theft is theft.
If I were of Moriori decent I would be suing all of NZ for rent! Going by Maori’s ideals they should be a fly in to take their land back or get payed rent.. ,
So there, what do you think of them bananas.
Comment by Jason Woody (aka James for any one that wants me to be) — July 14, 2011 @ 9:43 am
Jason, a couple of fundamental problems with your reasoning. I’ll just pick on two.
First, as NN says, the Moriori were according to nearly anyone who knows anything about the subject, in fact a Māori people. The thesis that they were the ‘original’ settlers was invented by Pākehā revisionists to justify the land wars on childish “they did it first!” grounds. That isn’t to excuse the inter-tribal warfare that characterised Māori society prior to their virtual extermination in the late C19th, but neither does it mean we are justified in engaging in similar acts. But a substantial part of the historical Pākehā claim of right is that we were different from those benighted savages. The Crown, rather than taking Aotearoa by swordright, has made very much political and symbolic mileage ouft of the fact that it chose a Treaty, and even leaving aside for a moment the fact that they would have been slaughtered and probably eaten had they tried to colonise by force (being outnumbered 20 to one in the north alone), and leaving aside their reckless supply of firearms to certain tribes, which resulted in the Musket Wars, and even ignoring the excessive and unjustified carnage of the Land Wars, the fact that they chose the Treaty remains a pretty big deal. But we can’t have it both ways: either we, as Pākehā, can claim to be the great, peace-loving, forward-thinking bringers of Treaties, or we can claim to have conquered Aotearoa by force, As a matter of historical fact, we did the former, and having done the former we now have a duty to abide by the agreement those settlers proposed.
Second, you reckon we’re going by ‘today’s laws’. Yes and no. The laws that govern such matters today are modern laws implemented to give legislative form to the Treaty, which has been accepted by successive governments and judiciary organs of the Crown as being valid and meaningful. So yes, Treaty law being mostly the same as contract law, the legislation that now enables the return of confiscated land and what not to tangata whenua is modern law, but the language that guides and underpins it is not new.
Apples, how do you like them?
L
Comment by Lew — July 14, 2011 @ 10:06 am
I have no problem with any stolen land being returned and I dont think that is at issue here, unless its of course land stolen from the Moriori..
I’m still in two minds as ti whether the treaty should be used as toilet paper or whether it deserves the validity it has been given, but I stand by my comments about the fact that if the land needs to be returned to anyone, then it should be going back to Moriori as they were here first. I don’t believe your comments about Moriori not being here first.. That’s just to convenient a conclusion on your part to counter my argument
But we are straying from the topic and my main concerns which are equal rights for all.. I think Don Brash has nailed it. Although he needs to be pushing it a lot further. He’s being to politically correct. They should never have fired John Ansell. I think John could be the savior of NZ in that it’s going to take people like him to stop all this racist nonsense from any bigoted, racist Maori.
Comment by Jason Woody (aka James for any one that wants me to be) — July 14, 2011 @ 10:15 am
Ok Jason, so all you’re really saying is that you don’t really care what the historical and legal and constitutional experts say is the actual factual case, you just choose to believe whatever stupid shit you’ve always believed because it suits your ideological disposition to do so.
Good to know. You’re not alone; most people think like this. John Ansell and Don Brash included.
L
Comment by Lew — July 14, 2011 @ 10:20 am
Jason,
If you REALLY are interested in the question of the Moriori, the invasion by Ngati Tama and Ngati Mutunga, and subsequent developments, here’s a good place to start: http://www.waitangi-tribunal.govt.nz/reports/summary.asp?reportid={DC857EB5-2849-43AE-8F86-B804058D0899}
You might note this point: ‘The scientific evidence is compelling: Moriori are the same people as Maori but, through isolation, they are unique as a Maori tribe.’
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 14, 2011 @ 10:22 am
# 164, there are many varying opinions. Who’s right, you just because you say you are? Even the friggen historians seem to change their minds and have different views. So if you think I’m going to believe you just because you say your right, then your kidding yourself. Trying to force your views on others isnt always going to work just because you want it too..
Comment by Jason Woody (aka James for any one that wants me to be) — July 14, 2011 @ 10:27 am
165, I have wasted enough in here on this subject as it is with out now taking up studying the subject, and if you care to study the subject there are many varying views and opinions. I can give you arguments for and against. Who should I believe, you because you post something that you believe. should I now go looking for something to counter that.
Sorry, I dont have time to play these games.. I’m about done here.. I have got my views across and that’s all I set out to do. I know it is impossible to change the mind of people that have been brainwashed, but at least you have been given a perspective in to why people are sick of this racist crap coming from maori.. Hopefully some of you will be open minded and understand why we are so sick of all this racist bullshit.
As for you quote “You might note this point: ‘The scientific evidence is compelling: Moriori are the same people as Moriori but, through isolation, they are unique as a Maori tribe.”
You could well be right, it doesnt change a thing. Theft is theft regardless of who it was from. Just because Moriori were possibly a subtribe of other Maori it didnt give maori the right to come here and steal the Moriori’s land.
Come on Morori, start suing the rest of NZ for your land back. Now that would be one hell of an interesting scenario… lol
Comment by Jason Woody (aka James for any one that wants me to be) — July 14, 2011 @ 10:33 am
Ah, yes, the lazy equivalence play, one of the late refuges of ignorant folk who won’t take the time to learn the first fucking thing about a topic before opining on it.
L
Comment by Lew — July 14, 2011 @ 10:43 am
The ‘law’ as it existed for Maori, pre treaty, allowed for the taking of land and belongings, slavery, cannibalism and all manner of retribution amongst iwi. But there were protocols covering all aspects of, by your ‘civilised’ standards, their ‘immoral’ behaviour.
So are you saying Moriori were a different ‘race’ and trying to justify Maori as being traditionally racist because they fucked over another tribe ?
FFS Maori aren’t even a ‘race’ in themselves. Technically races don’t exist, thats just another one of them 19th century eurocentric myths designed to prove a supposed whiteman superiority and to give a moral justification for their actions… helping to civilise the ignorant savages.
…and it still hasn’t stopped.
Comment by pollywog — July 14, 2011 @ 10:52 am
…but I stand by my comments about the fact that if the land needs to be returned to anyone, then it should be going back to Moriori as they were here first.
This sounds remarkably like Zionist logic.
Comment by Gregor W — July 14, 2011 @ 10:52 am
Lew, I dont need to be a professor on the subject to see the racist connotations that abound in NZ. Your an idiot if they aren’t blindingly obvious to you.
Comment by Jason Woody (aka James for any one that wants me to be) — July 14, 2011 @ 10:56 am
169, if this is infact true “The ‘law’ as it existed for Maori, pre treaty, allowed for the taking of land and belongings, slavery, cannibalism and all manner of retribution amongst iwi. But there were protocols covering all aspects of, by your ‘civilised’ standards, their ‘immoral’ behaviour”
then I would bow down to the fact that their wasnt a problem with Moriori’s land being stolen.
Can you expand on the above quote of yours.
Comment by Jason Woody (aka James for any one that wants me to be) — July 14, 2011 @ 11:00 am
“I have wasted enough in here on this subject as it is with out now taking up studying the subject, and if you care to study the subject there are many varying views and opinions.”
So … you don’t have time to study the subject, but somehow you know if you do that you’ll find differing views? Very prescient of you. The point being, of course, that there are better and worse views on things … unless you view the existence of the Flat Earth Society as reason to doubt the shape of our planet?
“I can give you arguments for and against.”
Indeed you could. So? Which argument is better?
“Who should I believe, you because you post something that you believe. should I now go looking for something to counter that.”
You’ll note my post contained a link to an extensive Waitangi Tribunal report that examines in depth the historical evidence relating to the issue. If you can find a comparably well researched and reasoned rebuttal source, then great! But you can’t – which is why you don’t bother looking.
“Sorry, I dont have time to play these games. I’m about done here.”
But you’ve somehow found the time to, at length, repeat the same point over and over again. Would it not be better to actually try to learn a bit more about a subject in response to the criticisms raised against your views, so as to see whether they really are well founded?
“I have got my views across and that’s all I set out to do. I know it is impossible to change the mind of people that have been brainwashed, but at least you have been given a perspective in to why people are sick of this racist crap coming from maori.’
Of course, YOU haven’t been brainwashed, have you? Despite actually not studying the subject, you KNOW what the right approach is and “what is really going on”? Remarkable.
“Hopefully some of you will be open minded and understand why we are so sick of all this racist bullshit.”
I understand 1.7% of the population appear to share your viewpoint. That is a full 3 times more than supported the Bill and Ben Party at the 2008 election, so I recognise that you clearly are smack-bang in the mainstream of public opinion, and not just some lone voice parading his prejudices on an obscure blog site.
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 14, 2011 @ 11:06 am
Indeed, Jason. If you were a professor on the subject you’d see it quite differently indeed.
L
Comment by Lew — July 14, 2011 @ 11:06 am
“Can you expand on the above quote of yours.”
I don’t get it, Jason. Do you want to study this stuff or not? In any case: http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/take-whenua-maori-land-tenure/1
Again, if you want to learn more about the actual background to the issue of the Moriori and the invasion of Rekohu, I’ve linked you to the Waitangi Tribunal report on it.
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 14, 2011 @ 11:13 am
The biggest problem I have with pollywog’s world view is it frozen in 1840. it is no good talking about British settlers (AKA “Pakeha”) and Maori as if they are the only two ethnicities that exist in this land. The thing is, history has a nasty habit of being an ongoing and evolving thing. My family arrived in 1855, and I can proudly boast to being the sixth generation born here, to have exclusively NZ born grandparents and great grandparents on both sides of the family and to being a quarter Maori to boot.
What am I? I have no foreign passport and I don’t wish for one. I’m not a Pakeha in the dismissive sense pollywog means it, Britain is as foreign country to me as France or Germany. I am not a Maori, I neither look like one or am inclined to wrap myself in a Kiwi feather cloak and adopt a permanent resentful victim mode, which it seems to be the primary characteristic of pollywog’s Maori.
So I proudly call myself a New Zealander, and whilst I believe the wrongs of the past need to be addressed, I (along with about 99% of the rest of NZer’s) refuse to accept that I am any less entitled than Tariana Turia’s benighted “my people” to claim ownership of this land. When I go home after a long time away and behold the rolling hills (lush in spring, or burnt under the fierce heat of a golden East Coast summer) of my beloved Hawke’s Bay I swear a tear has been known to roll down my cheek. Whether pollywog likes it or not, white New Zealanders are here to stay and grow very angry when told they should get on a plane and go home. When I read that, I think to myself, what on earth does he mean? That I should fly to Hawke’s Bay? What would that solve?
From where I see things, bi-culturalism is an out of date 1970′s solution based on a then fashionable interpretation of how we should deal with the past. We need to recognise the uniqueness of Maori culture, but only insofar as it is the first amongst a whole lot of equals. We need to accept that it is inevitable that Maori and Maori culture have and will inevitably be absorbed as (just?) another component of being that more important thing – a New Zealander.
Comment by Sanctuary — July 14, 2011 @ 11:22 am
white New Zealanders are here to stay and grow very angry when told they should get on a plane and go home.
If white NZ isn’t going to be part of the solution, is just gonna bitchmoan about Maori problems this and Maori privileges that, and get in the way of real progress by way of cultural evolution that requires a bit of give and take on both sides, then they should fuck off somewhere else and do it.
same goes for staunch Maori who deny their essential wider Pasifikan nature and culture. Many need to get back to the rohe to live and take their place at the meeting post for their words to ring sincere
Shit or get off the pot basically, but the one thing my worldview is not, is frozen in 1840. It’s more like 1340 with the arrival of the early settlers from Pasifika or 2140 in two more generations when the cultural landscape will be decidedly Pasifikan again
Comment by pollywog — July 14, 2011 @ 11:44 am
Sanctuary,
Nothing particularly wrong with that. But the question is, what is meant by “We need to recognise the uniqueness of Maori culture, but only insofar as it is the first amongst a whole lot of equals.” Insofar as Maori culture is intimately connected with the land and resources of this place, and insofar as it manifests in terms of a particular way of deciding things, then “recognising” it is going to require giving Maori interests some status that is different to those of others – simply put, if you are going to “recognise” the cultural concept of kaitiakitanga, then you are going to have to give local hapu and iwi some voice in management decisions regarding .
Alternatively, if the claim is “sorry – everyone always gets treated the same”, then it will not be possible to “recognise” the unique Maori culture in any way but a kind of Disneyfied, hollowed out, superficial one … having the occasional display of kapa haka at official ceremonies, a bit of poi twirling in primary schools, and so on.
So, yes … the concept of “a New Zealander” is very important. But its not an answer. It’s just another question.
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 14, 2011 @ 11:46 am
Goddam it … premature post. Should read “if you are going to “recognise” the cultural concept of kaitiakitanga, then you are going to have to give local hapu and iwi some voice in management decisions regarding natural resources in their rohe.”
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 14, 2011 @ 11:48 am
“…then they should fuck off somewhere else and do it….”
This position is as racist as anything Mr. Ansell could come up with.
Comment by Sanctuary — July 14, 2011 @ 11:58 am
This position is as racist as anything Mr. Ansell could come up with.
oh bullshit.
Comment by pollywog — July 14, 2011 @ 12:02 pm
Can you expand on the above quote of yours.
OK i’ll take pity on your Pakeha Maori arse seeing as how you asked.
Here, read this book, written in 1863…
OLD NEW ZEALAND:
BEING INCIDENTS OF NATIVE CUSTOMS AND CHARACTER
IN THE OLD TIMES.
By
A PAKEHA MAORI.
PREFACE.
To the English reader, and to most of those who have arrived in New Zealand within the last thirty years, it may be necessary to state that the descriptions of Maori life and manners of past times, found in these sketches, owe nothing to fiction. The different scenes and incidents are given exactly as they occurred, and all the persons described are real persons.
Contact with the British settlers has of late years effected a marked and rapid change in the manners and mode of life of the natives, and the Maori of the present day are as unlike what they were when I first saw them as they are still unlike a civilized people or British subjects.
The writer has, therefore, thought it might be worth while to place a few sketches of old Maori life on record, before the remembrance of them has quite passed away; though in doing so he has by no means exhausted an interesting subject, and a more full and particular delineation of old Maori life, manners, and history has yet to be written.
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/33342
…it’ll both confirm and dispel a few myths for you. Take particular note of the concept of Muru, Tapu and Mana then just remember where you are and who you are or you might just get eaten in the ‘real’ world and dispossessed of all your shit for lack of Mana.
Comment by pollywog — July 14, 2011 @ 12:05 pm
I have to say, Sanc, that I appreciate and agree with Pākehā who hold views such as yours a lot more when they speak like you have — about their own experience, and their own values and sense of rootedness, rather than talking exclusively about ‘the Maaries’.
Cheers,
L
Comment by Lew — July 14, 2011 @ 12:15 pm
Well, we’re having the debate and that’s good. Thanks Jason Woody for being an island of truth in a sea of lies.
I don’t apologise for calling a spade a spade. I’m not calling it a manually-leveraged soil displacement utensil just to spare the feelings of people who find the truth painful (people who express their truths much more crudely to me).
As far as I’ve seen, no one anywhere has provided any evidence to negate the facts in the ad. What they object to is my tone. But that tone (which I call honesty) is precisely what’s getting the issue talked about.
ACT’s present polling was done before this ad ran. I told Don that he needed to front-foot the issue, not vacillate. But he chose to vacillate and disown my Herald comments, and is now talking about wanting ‘brown faces’ on his list.
The tokenism of that statement would have annoyed a lot of the people who supported the ad, so we’ll never know what the true measure of polling support would have been had he stayed strong.
Comment by John Ansell — July 14, 2011 @ 1:37 pm
Lest my last comment be interpreted as not being accountable for the polling response to the ad, I would absolutely support a specific poll being taken on whether people support the Maorification of New Zealand.
I’d be very surprised if it didn’t mirror the similar poll on Close Up, where 40,000 people (the population of Wanganui/Whanganui) paid 75c each to answer the question, “Are Maori special?”.
81% of those people used their 75c to vote “NO”.
Comment by John Ansell — July 14, 2011 @ 1:42 pm
“But that tone (which I call honesty)”
It doesn’t look honest when it’ uses very selective targeted examples.
Take “bribe the tribe” in relation to RMA. What about “bribe DOC” and “bribe any other interest group that is offered funds to mitigate the effects of a development”?
Comment by Pete George — July 14, 2011 @ 1:42 pm
Truly John, your truthiness is compelling.
I understand Jason needs a buddy to go Galt with. One space left.
Comment by Gregor W — July 14, 2011 @ 1:44 pm
John,
One could nit-pick and point out, for instance, that New Zealand has not “ratified” the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, as this is not a treaty. Or that there has been no “foisting” of the name Whanganui on anyone – the Minister’s decision was that people were free to continue with either spelling (which is why it is still the Wanganui District Council – http://www.wanganui.govt.nz/).
However, the issue isn’t so much whether what you allege in the ad is happening as a matter of fact. It is the interpretation given to those facts. Point being, if I were to run an ad pointing to measures to encourage more general practitioners to work in rural areas and the rural broadband initiative as evidence of the “ruralisation of New Zealand” and evidence that rural folk were getting special treatment ahead of ordinary town dwelling New Zealanders, could you negate the facts in that ad? And if not, where is the ire at this disgraceful example of separatism in action?
Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 14, 2011 @ 1:55 pm
184, wow cool to see you here John…
I keep hearing it and seeing it where ever I go. People, mostly European, but some Maori as well saying how they have had a guts full of all this racist B.S.. I cant wait to see how ACT go come elections. Im just really dissapointed not to see you there as well John. I think ACT will be far worse off for not having you on board.
On another note, the villiage idiot strikes again.. lol
Mr Harawira was thrown out of parliament this afternoon after he refused to give the correct oath of affirmation. His supporters then began to break into a waiata as he left the debating chamber, in defiance of Mr Smith’s orders for them to stop. A National MP yelled “lack of respect” as he left the chamber. Mr Smith said he had to throw Mr Harawira out because it was illegal not to give the oath as it was defined by law
The villiage idiot is not even an MP. God he’s such a clown.
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/9842009/speaker-refuses-to-swear-in-harawira/
Comment by Jason Woody (aka James for any one that wants me to be) — July 14, 2011 @ 3:43 pm
Perhaps James, Jason and John can all get together and the two of them can tell each other how they’re the only ones with a direct line to the universe and truth and how terribly misunderstood they all are. You would think though, that Ansell should be able to avoid being so horribly misunderstood and mistaken for a racist, misogynist given that he’s supposedly an professional communicator, but there you go.
Comment by Guy Smiley — July 14, 2011 @ 7:57 pm
#169, after reading the link at 175, it does seem Maori could own land by conquest.. it seems it was a rule of their time.
You almost had me convinced, then I thought, I had read where Morori were a gentle and non violent race.
If so, would they want to have any part of such a rule.
Also, who made the rule. I guarantee it wasn’t the Moriori if they were here first. Why would the first people here tell any invaders that they could have and own their land if they could take it by conquest. That wouldn’t make sense to anyone.
So i still say if anyone has the right to this land, it should be Moriori, not Maori. For some strange reason, this fact is conveniently over looked by Maori.. I wonder why?
Comment by Jason Woody — July 14, 2011 @ 10:28 pm
Oh Guy, hush now and don’t be so crass. I feel myself the need for an Attenborough-like whisper when describing what I am privileged to witness here. James has fallen in love. Behold the courting dance, where the submissive one supplicates before his beloved. One should shatter the delicate, fragrant ambience of such a rare and tender moment. Propriety (aka the universe) should indeed draw a veil of discretion over their asymptoptic pre-nuptuals and let the two shower each other with kisses, delicate as snowflakes, in the privacy that the eternally betrothed are entitled to by… the universe.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 14, 2011 @ 10:35 pm
For some strange reason, this fact is conveniently over looked by Maori.. I wonder why?
It may have something to do with the fact that there is no archaeological evidence whatsoever that the Moriori were ever on mainland New Zealand. Or the Celts, or the Romans, or the Spanish, Chinese or Magratheans.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 14, 2011 @ 10:38 pm
there’s also nothing in either Maori or Moriori oral histories to suggest this
Comment by kahikatea — July 14, 2011 @ 10:41 pm
Why can’t a woman be more like a man?
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 14, 2011 @ 10:45 pm
I recall an article in the Herald about 20 odd years back about the Kaimanawa wall and the fascination with it as people thought it might be man made.The really interesting bit was that the geological evidence etc was embargoed for 80 years in the interests of the local Maori people…. excuse me????
Comment by James (the actual one) — July 14, 2011 @ 10:45 pm
The incoherent syntax almost but not quite obscures the cryptomnesia and the conspiracy theory.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 14, 2011 @ 10:57 pm
… and what does this have to do with Lemiria or the Face in Cydonia????!!!ELEVEN!!! Huh?
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 14, 2011 @ 10:58 pm
Lemuria I mean. Or Mu Mu.
Really, New Age archaeology now? What next? Black helicopters?
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 14, 2011 @ 11:01 pm
I don’t care Rhino…I was simple stating a fact…..but you have an issue with those I know…they tend to bugger up your “primacy of consciousness” world view.
Comment by James (the actual one) — July 14, 2011 @ 11:35 pm
You are simple, as you say; on that I agree. You consider a vague and confused memory of a probable misreading of a dubiously-reported newspaper article two decades ago to be a “fact”, on the same level as say, the second law of thermodynamics or pi? Truly, that is beyond parody – I could not make it up if I tried.
And where does the “primacy of consciousness” stuff come from? Has the universe been talking to you behind my back again?
Oh, of course, before I forget:
>:) ::::))))
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 14, 2011 @ 11:54 pm
Not to mention:
:/ >:( >:|
Oh dear, they don’t all work.
Guess I’m pwned then…
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 14, 2011 @ 11:55 pm
Nope…I remember reading article and what it said quite well thanks.I always regret not cutting it out for occasions such as this.I don’t care about the wall but the embargo thing was what was interesting….if the walls natural then why bother…?
Comment by James (the actual one) — July 14, 2011 @ 11:58 pm
With the magic that is Google…….”G. Cook, assisted by a few likeminded compatriots, has been exploring the Waipoua Forest in Northland. Here, he claims, is a treasure trove of pre-Maori stone structures. In a 242-hectare area, he has found 16 sites encompassing nearly 2,000 enigmatic stone structures. Interestingly, the New Zealand government has made a three-year survey of the area and has embargoed release of their report until 2063! (Official coverups are also found in archeology.)
Sure its from a dodgy site but that’s what I remember….from 1996 it seems…golly…I tough it was longer than that.
Comment by James (the actual one) — July 15, 2011 @ 12:02 am
I remember my cat stealing a car and driving it down the street. The cat was a tabby and the car was a British Racing Green Morris Minor. The cat was quite competent in his driving, I recall, so it was definitely true. The fact that it was a dream I had twenty years ago does nothing to invalidate my account and I regret not videorecording it at the time for times such as these.
OK, in plain, simple words of one syllable. You. Claim. To. Have. Seen. Some… some..thing (bugger, two syllables…). Twenty (damn, again!) Years. Ago (Oh, sod it!). Which you cannot produce and it is an incontrovertible (count ‘em!) “fact”?
Cool. I really could not make this up.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 12:05 am
Whoops…wrong quote on wrong thing.
During the May 1996 media frenzy, local Maori suddenly declared that the wall is both an ‘atua’, and a ‘waahi tapu’. Local Tuwharetoa elders warn that as a result it is now a no-go area for both the public and Department of Conservation and `we require this rule to be adhered to without exception’.
Maori elders also took the opportunity to refute the idea that the wall is of pre-Maori origin, and re-iterate that `the tangata whenua are the only descendants of the original occupants in Aotearoa’.
Victoria University Maori Studies senior lecturer Peter Adds also stated publically that `the suggestion of a pre-Maori civilisation is inherently racist’…(the PC were up to their dirty smearing tricks then too it seems…)
http://www.mysteriousnewzealand.co.nz/photogallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=14#
Comment by James (the actual one) — July 15, 2011 @ 12:07 am
“With the magic that is Google…”
Good grief! Google? Friggin’ Google? I can get horoscopes via google. Is that magical? Are they true?
“Here, he claims,”
Ahem, ever heard of “peer review”?
“assisted by a few likeminded compatriots”
Um, can we say “confirmation bias” or “Folie à deux”?
“Sure its from a dodgy site”
Right, yep…
And then the Black helicopters, official coverup, Mars Observer launched a bomb to ruin the Face on Cydonia etcetera stuff.
And from this, apparently, the Moriori were on the New Zealand Mainland and therefore the Treaty of Waitangi is a fallacy?
Cthulhu wept (and then giggled).
Please. Keep digging.
Meanwhile, get a load of this guy – he’ll be right up your alley:
http://www.enterprisemission.com/
Hyperdimensional physics, Face on Mars, Masonic rituals on the Moon – you’ll love it!
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 12:15 am
New Zealand Herald,29th of May 1996,
Comment by James (the actual one) — July 15, 2011 @ 12:17 am
” local Maori suddenly declared that …”
So some loons said something in response to some other loons? Of course it can’t be as simple as that, so “the PC were up to their dirty smearing tricks then too it seems…”
Please, more.
(“refute” Bah, more journalistic ignorance. “Rebut” would be appropriate.)
I miss my cat, I’m sure he would have given Stirling Moss a run for his money.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 12:19 am
Rhino….as I said…I don’t really care…but I DID see this article and it seems it was in the NZ Herald on the 29th of May 1996….and others have referenced it too so suck on them bikkies.50 odd year Embargo’s on archological and geological evidence in NZ..? Aren’t YOU just a bit surprised,and concerned at that?
Comment by James (the actual one) — July 15, 2011 @ 12:22 am
“NZ Herald”?
Not exactly Nature is it? Rather closer to the Fortean Times
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 12:22 am
Whatever….have your echo chamber back….;-)
Comment by James (the actual one) — July 15, 2011 @ 12:23 am
“I don’t really care…”
Of course. That’s why you keep posting.
(My excuse is perverse hedonism).
“but I DID see this article ”
I dreamed about my cat. Refute that!
“Aren’t YOU just a bit surprised,and concerned at that?”
No more than I am surprised and concerned concerned about the rantings in Uncensored or Nexus about chemtrails, the Trilateral Commision and Majestic 12.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 12:26 am
Love and kisses, James. (Don’t tell John)
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 12:27 am
When Cthulhu giggles, copies of ‘The rights of man’ and ‘On Liberty’ transmogrify into Atlas Shrugged and Fountainhead.
It’s a problem.
Comment by Pascal's bookie — July 15, 2011 @ 8:25 am
#128 learning science could be quite helpful.. Hey I would be able to Macgyver my self out of all sorts of situations.. Learning Te Reo would do nothing to enhance my life. Nothing at all. The only purpose for every body in NZ to learn Te Reo is to appease a few racist redneck Maori.
Comment by Jason Woody — July 15, 2011 @ 10:03 am
and my parting shot since this thread is taking its last gasp of air…
# 178, Come on, you got to be kidding me.. You actually believe this bulldust? I mean seriously?
“Insofar as Maori culture is intimately connected with the land and resources of this place, and insofar as it manifests in terms of a particular way of deciding things, then “recognising” it is going to require giving Maori interests some status that is different to those of others”
yeah right.. God I think I need a crate of Tui’s after reading that.. Poster 178. Do you believe in Fairies, angel dust, goblins and Taniwha’s too… lol
I would love you to try to explain to me that quote of yours above.. This I really really got to hear.
I have lived with Maori for years, and I can tell you, they dont see the land or the sea any differently to you or I.
Possibly 150 years back, but then I doubt that too.. They had no problem wiping the Moa out, nearly took out the wood pigeons, want me to go on?
How the hell does rape and pillage of the land and seas’ resources, equate to being intimately connected with the land and the sea.
And the rape of our sea go’s on with large quantaties of our sea food taken under the guise of Huis etc. And its not like they even respect any size restriction.. Oh no, stuff that, they are Maori, so their is no size requirement.. Rape pillage and plunder, it’s all fair game.
yet us honkys take a few too many, or to small and what happens?
How the hell is this not special treatment of one race? Why cant other races take large quantities of undersize seafood for their get togethers?
I lived for years amongst Maori and believe me, they dont even need any paper work to rape our sea resources. Yes of course so do other cultures rape our seafood, but my point is, you say maori have a connection to the land and the sea. Try living with Maori and get the real picture first.
And if you are a Maori, then can I suggest you speak with forked tongue. The connection to the land and the sea bullpucky is only for the TV cameras.
So how’s that for being p.c correct for you..
Comment by Jason Woody — July 15, 2011 @ 4:28 pm
Hm. Didn’t Nietzsche have a line about eternal return? Either that or the proverb about a fool returning to his folly like a dog to its vomit…
Comment by Sam F — July 15, 2011 @ 5:31 pm
Sam F – bummer when you hate what some one says, but you know they are right, so there’s f*** all you can say about it.
Suck it up bruther.
Comment by Jason Woody — July 15, 2011 @ 8:35 pm
Yeah or Jason will get James on to you and then you’ll get pwned. Honestly boy you’re a fuckwit.
Comment by Guy Smiley — July 15, 2011 @ 8:46 pm
Give it up Jason…the poor pussy whipped dears here have their orders to sneer and snarl at anything not approved by PC high command.
Comment by James (the actual one) — July 15, 2011 @ 8:48 pm
sh*t. I forgot to check with PC high command what I’m supposed to be sneering at today
Comment by kahikatea — July 15, 2011 @ 9:01 pm
lol James… I cant help but rub their noses in it a little.. They have had it all their way for too long. It is nice to see people starting to stand up to this racist crap for a change though. But yep, your probably right.. Mission accomplished here.. Think I might mosey on and find some others that need enlightening..
Comment by Jason Woody — July 15, 2011 @ 9:08 pm
That’s the trouble with PC High Command, Kahikatea. Their bloody carrier pigeons detour to the pub and get sozzled while the universe tends to drop by in person for a chat (with tea and bickies) for its bestest most personal friends.
Just today, the universe, who increasingly looks and sounds like Michael Caine (given, as he is wont, to say “Not many people know that”), dropped by to inform me that relativistic frame-dragging on a galactic scale explains the preponderance of matter over antimatter today. See:
http://arxiv.org/abs/1107.1575
The mere, feeble tool of pussy-whipping is no match for such rhetorical power. Give it up, woman, give it up. Your lady-parts are simply not up to the forces that you so unwisely challenge.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 9:19 pm
Note how they alternate? It makes a pretty pattern.
And remember, watch out for the Black Helicopters and Ice-Cream Vans (because they’re driven by the Justified Ancients of Mu Mu, who, as we know, built that wall).
Cuddles.
OK, dropping my satirical character here, has James the Paranoid Randroid gone from being dim to being outright batshit solipsistic, Dissociative Identity Disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder) insane?
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 9:29 pm
Rhinocrates, I must commend you for your patience. You would be perfect for a job in special ed. When the rest of us get a little bored schooling Jimbo, you’re always there going that extra mile. Thank you.
Comment by Guy Smiley — July 15, 2011 @ 9:31 pm
I have to say, there are unexplored forces and phenomena here. For example, the merest drop of pakeha blood, however distant in one’s genealogy, can completely invalidate one’s credibility, indicating the utterly overwhelming superiority of pakehaness (I’m not sure where that puts me, as I’m pakeha, but impurely Celtic – and as you know, the Celts were the first people of New Zealand – but I’m also partly Norwegian… are Vikings greater or lesser?).
And now look at the power of the vagina, so frequently alluded to by James/Jason/Mr Flibble…
Wilhelm Reich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Reich) was onto something, as William S. Burroughs so frequently wrote, and so, intuitively, barely aware yet, waiting for the Cockney embodiment of the universe to explain it all to me, I intuit that there is an immense energy source ready to be utilised that will forever free us from dependence on both fossil fuels and nuclear energy and that is pakeha vagina.
Or clitoris. I could be wrong.
And of course it would involve the complete abandonment of objective thought.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 9:46 pm
“Mission accomplished here…”
Last time that phrase was used as a declaration of victory, it didn’t work out so well.
Comment by Grassed Up — July 15, 2011 @ 9:51 pm
James, while not dissimilar to Bush, has more in common with Comical Ali.
Comment by Guy Smiley — July 15, 2011 @ 9:55 pm
You would be perfect for a job in special ed.
Funnily enough, Guy, I have a job that does touch on that area at times, and I have the deepest respect and affection for students who have at the core of their being a desire to learn and excel and who feel genuine joy in their achievements, despite what life, genetics, neurology and biochemistry have thrown at them.
To be honest, I’m not schooling Jimbo. I’ll never teach him a damned thing because he is so wrapped up in his psychosis that he simply won’t learn. I would feel guilty if he didn’t make himself fair game with his unconcealed, indeed theatrical, misanthropy (there’s not need to break it down into misogyny and racism).
I’m doing this purely for my own amusement. Does that make me bad?
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 9:55 pm
Comical Ali
Hello again Guy (any relation to George?), yes that did occur to me.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 9:56 pm
“Does that make me bad?”
meh. Baiting objectivists is a public service. The greatest good for the greatest number and all that.
Comment by Guy Smiley — July 15, 2011 @ 9:59 pm
Ah, you vacillating quisling you, you avoided my crucial question so cunningly and alliteratively concealed in brackets: are you a relation of George?
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 10:07 pm
No, I’m a famous game show host from my childhood: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Smiley.
George is my brother.
Comment by Guy Smiley — July 15, 2011 @ 10:13 pm
So yes, maybe.
Comment by Guy Smiley — July 15, 2011 @ 10:14 pm
Ha! Pwned!
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 10:22 pm
Then this looks interesting:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/video/2011/jun/30/tinker-tailor-soldier-spy-traiker
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 10:27 pm
meh. Baiting objectivists is a public service. The greatest good for the greatest number and all that.
Oh is that what you are doing..?.do let us know when it works…lol.It seems to me all you do its talk to each other while I pop in to laugh at you occasionally….;-)
Comment by James (the actual one) — July 15, 2011 @ 10:46 pm
238, Doesn’t their conversation remind you of two children trying their best to console each other… lol
Comment by Jason Woody — July 15, 2011 @ 11:04 pm
Yes…what’s really sad is they seem to think we care….I feel sorry for them almost.
Comment by James (the actual one) — July 15, 2011 @ 11:21 pm
James/Jason/Scarfie/Ramesses Niblick the Third Kerplunk Kerplunk Oops Where my Thribble?, kookaburras make a sound that resembles laughter, but I don’t see any evidence that that indicates higher cognitive functions.
African Grey Parrots, on the other hand, demonstrate the ability for abstract thought, which is another story…
Anyway, try to get the smileys right, will you? Is that too much to ask? I know that it’s beyond you to gain a grasp of English (so it’s no wonder that the relevance Te Reo is beyond your comprehension), but that might possibly be something you can manage.
You see, this works:
But this doesn’t:
It’s the hyphen between the semicolon and the closing bracket that makes the difference.
Anyway, for what its worth, after a full stop, a comma, a semicolon, a colon and usually a dash, a space is necessary (a double space is in fact usual after a full stop, though most word processing programmes add that automatically). The space bar is the long oblong at the bottom of the keyboard.
Anyway, if “lol” is your thing, I’m up to that too:
Of course, you do know that I can bring this all to a close simply by saying that the universe has told me so, don’t you? Don’t you literally tremble in fear that the thought that I might go to Defcon Four and begin to intone, insert the key and turn it or whatever and say, “That is an objective fact, I’m just saying it’s like it is, and you can mock all you like because the universe…”
I’ll be merciful this time, but I warn you, one day I will complete that sentence and you will be mere subatomic particles and gamma-ray photons.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 11:23 pm
Hmmm, semicolon, hyphen, close bracket gives
while semicolon without hyphen and then closed bracket gives
. Quite the same. Pwned, I guess…
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 11:25 pm
I stand by the use of the space bar, by the way.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 11:27 pm
See Jason…? He went to the trouble of typing all that out…….you can tell someone isn’t getting laid too often huh?
Comment by James (the actual one) — July 15, 2011 @ 11:30 pm
Darling(s), you forgot to mention my mother like you did last time! Come on, try again, and bring her into it!
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 11:35 pm
Oh come on, I’m waiting. My mother; a woman in her late seventies whom you fantasise about, as you said. Try, please; ignore the wrinkles, or adore them – whatever.
Aside to the audience: yes, I know that I’m being a dreadful ham, but this is increasingly being a Rocky Horror Show performance and I just can’t resist.
Comment by Rhinocrates — July 15, 2011 @ 11:44 pm
Jason Woody:
“bummer when you hate what some one says, but you know they are right, so there’s f*** all you can say about it”
Pretty much everyone else above said it better. I was just making a joke about the title.
The burning philosophical question I want to bring to the table is this: when you’re typing all your comments out one-handed, do you use a different hand for James and Jimbo, and if so which one for which? Or does it just depend on which arm isn’t sexually exhausted? I think we should be told.
Comment by Sam F — July 16, 2011 @ 12:34 pm
*stretches and yawns*
Comment by Jason Woody — July 16, 2011 @ 3:29 pm