The Dim-Post

July 10, 2011

72 hours of equality, liberalism and reason

Filed under: too fucking crazy to count as politics — danylmc @ 8:05 pm

Just to re-cap all the developments in the ACT Party’s fascinating new pro-race war policy and collect them all in one place:

On Friday ACT placed an ad in the New Zealand Herald written by ACT staffer and ‘Creative Director’ John Ansell. The ad warned of the dangers of Maori radicals and the National Party’s appeasement policy towards them. It ended:

Now is the time to draw a line in the sand. Only one thing can stop the Maori radicalisation of New Zealand. And that’s a strong ACT.

That evening ACT leader Don Brash sent out a press release containing these comments:

ACT New Zealand leader Don Brash says he’s proud of the content of his Party’s advertisement published in this morning’s New Zealand Herald.

The advertisement is headed “Fed up with pandering to Maori radicals?” and itemises ways in which radical extremists have succeeded in imposing a separatist agenda on a long-suffering New Zealand.

“I have been warning of this creeping separatism for some time, as part of ACT’s One Law for All campaign,” says Dr Brash . . . it’s time this insidious cancer was diagnosed for what it is – a type of apartheid – and excised.

“It’s time to tell them their game is up,” Dr Brash concludes.

(The style of the press release suggests it was written by another ACT staffer, Brash press secretary Lindsay Perigo, who describes Maori as ‘gangs of tribal savages‘ on his blog SOLOPassion.)

On Saturday John Ansell made several comments on David Farrar’s Kiwiblog. Selected examples:

There is a volcano of rage on the street about the Maorification of Everything. Meanwhile Key panders to Maori. Every other party panders to Maori . . . Does ACT want to be the courageous general rallying his men to fight a war for civilisation?

And:

We are New Zealanders and we are not allowed to tell our truth (as Alasdair Thompson recently found out to his cost).

We are not allowed to speak out about state suffocation, Maorification, feminazism, National socialism, teacher unionism or any of the other evils that are dragging our country into the third world.

In short, [ACT's] catchment is men and women who think like men. Not men and women who think like women. ACT is the party of the strong father, not the soft mother.

(By strong father I include strong women like Rand, Richardson and Thatcher, and by soft mother I include weak men like Key.)

ACT leader Don Brash distanced himself from these statements, but according to reporters Brash then:

attacked the National Party for “appeasing groups of Maori radicals”. He said exceptions created for Maori, like advisory boards, were a form of “apartheid”.

John Ansell then spoke to David Fisher at the Herald on Sunday:

He said Prime Minister John Key and Attorney-General Chris Finlayson were “grade-A idiots” but he admired the Maori Party for taking advantage of them. “When the white man opens the door and says come in and rape us, of course, if you’ve got any sort of business like sense you’ll go for whatever you can get.”

Ansell said Key was an “idiot” who was the “most lilly-livered Prime Minister” and a “massively incompetent economic manager”. He said the National Party no longer espoused the values it claimed – instead the Act Party had taken over.

At this point Brash indicated that Ansell was asked to leave the party, and Ansell affirmed he’d resigned on a new Kiwiblog thread in which he stated:

People like Sharples are no doubt absolutely genuine in their Maoridom . . . But for purposes of extracting money from non-Maori, he is not a full, or even probably half-Maori. The same goes for most of these latter-day Maori. They say blood quantum doesn’t matter. Well they would, wouldn’t they?

Brash will no longer comment on Ansell’s statements because it’s an ‘employment matter.’ But there’s more! Disgraced former ACT MP David Garrett (of whom just last week Brash announced he’d be delighted to have stand for Parliament again for the ACT Party), added to the Kiwiblog debate:

Make no mistake, the entire [Maori Party] – including that nice Dr Sharples all the ladies love, and Aunty Tari – want nothing less than total Maori control of Aotearoa – and if we don’t like it, we can all bugger off somewhere else.

Remember – this is a party that’s not only in Parliament but in government with the Maori Party!

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103 Comments »

  1. The thing that really gets me about all this is the consistent misspelling of “lily-livered” as “lilly-livered.” A “lilly” is a noun. Come on.

    Comment by Josh — July 10, 2011 @ 8:14 pm

  2. ACT – making Hone Harawira appear balanced.

    Comment by abel the amish — July 10, 2011 @ 8:18 pm

  3. ‘Creative Director’ sounds more like a job for a TV soap. Ah….

    Comment by Pete George — July 10, 2011 @ 8:28 pm

  4. “When people… use the term ‘savages’ they are not, for some inexplicable reason, trying to suggest that the subjects have a rich oral tradition, a complex system of tribal rights and a deep respect for the spirits of their ancestors. They are implying the kind of behaviour more generally associated, oddly enough, with people wearing a full suit of clothes, often with the same sort of insignia.” – Terry Pratchett

    Comment by Dizzy — July 10, 2011 @ 8:35 pm

  5. This is good for John key.

    Comment by gn — July 10, 2011 @ 8:40 pm

  6. “Remember – this is a party that’s not only in Parliament but in government with the Maori Party!”

    Reminder, this is also a man who was very nearly prime minister…

    Comment by Rory MacKinnon — July 10, 2011 @ 9:04 pm

  7. Remember – this is a party that’s not only in Parliament but in government with the Maori Party!

    And it’s a party that would disappear in an instant, with one word from the Prime Minister to the voters of Epsom.

    Key’s ability to (i) keep ACT alive while it tries to kill itself and (ii) claim it all has nothing to do with him, is one of the great conjuring tricks of our time.

    Comment by sammy — July 10, 2011 @ 9:07 pm

  8. Reminder, this is also a man who was very nearly prime minister…

    Technically true, but as Danyl noted back in April Danyl back in April:
    I think people overestimate Brash’s appeal to voters and his basic competence. Instead of ‘Don Brash almost won the 2005 election’ I think it’s more accurate to say ‘Stephen Joyce almost won the 2005 election and would have if Don Brash didn’t happen to be leader at the time’.

    Comment by Joe Wylie — July 10, 2011 @ 9:12 pm

  9. I wonder where Ansell can go to now, the Tashkoff Party?

    I doubt it’ll be the NF, since they’d probably think he’s too capitalistic.

    Comment by DeepRed — July 10, 2011 @ 10:08 pm

  10. Deepred

    His future is in Australia. Or Iceland.

    Comment by Adolf Fiinkensein — July 10, 2011 @ 10:19 pm

  11. I was thinking HK with that nice Cactus woman, but she seems to be getting a bit annoyed with him these days. . .

    Comment by Owen — July 10, 2011 @ 10:54 pm

  12. F***. That can be the only reasonable response.

    What a bunch of dicks.

    Comment by Tim — July 10, 2011 @ 11:02 pm

  13. It’s still not over

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2011/07/act_angst.html#comment-850733

    Comment by Sam Finnemore — July 10, 2011 @ 11:50 pm

  14. @Sam

    Now of course I’ll be branded misogynist as well as racist. But again, I’m just pointing out the simple truth.

    And there’s an argument for same-sex marriage. James and John: the perfect couple. I can see them now in their aprons and curlers in Coronation Street as it used to be.

    Comment by Rhinocrates — July 10, 2011 @ 11:54 pm

  15. Ansell’s sin, I think was lowering Brash’s dog-whistles a couple of octaves so that they were within the range of human hearing.

    Comment by Rhinocrates — July 11, 2011 @ 12:42 am

  16. The rational (or should that be Brashional) approach.

    “Brashional”.

    Comment by derp de derp — July 11, 2011 @ 1:06 am

  17. “Remember – this is a party that’s not only in Parliament but in government with the Maori Party!”
    This is an interesting point, because Act and the MP are not really in government together, in my view. Each of these two minor parties is in a confidence and supply agreement with the National minority government – that’s the crux, we kind of only have one party in government, but it has support parties which are half-in and half-out of government. That said, both have Ministers, so are both part of the same “executive” (although they’re not in Cabinet, so by some definitions not part of the true executive…). It’s confusing and there isn’t actually a consensus in the literature as to whether support parties in these situations are fully or totally “in government”. I’ve argued previously (well, tried to) that this type of governing arrangement almost resembles two different governments existing concurrently, a Nat-MP (plus UF) govt, and a Nat-Act (plus UF) govt, with each combination commanding a majority in parliament. In the end i came to the conclusion that i should stop thinking about it and accept we have a minority government.

    Comment by Jake Quinn — July 11, 2011 @ 1:18 am

  18. Bwahahahahaha. I have had a shit-eating grin pasted all over my face ever since I read John Ansell’s ‘white cowards’ comments on Kiwiblog. ACT’s meltdown makes Fukushima look puny. ;)

    But to be fair to Ansell and ACT, I never assumed Ansell (or Garrett) was speaking on behalf of ACT when posting comments on blogs, or even in the Herald. I look for a clear indication they are speaking for the party, like being named as ‘ACT Creative Director’, or somesuch.

    Now how carefully will Goff or the Greens work John Key into a corner on backing a strong Nats candidate against ACT in Epsom, or ruling ACT out as a coalition partner or confidence & supply support party? Or will they Goff it up?

    Either way, I’m still grinning :) (as Rodney H must be)

    Comment by bob — July 11, 2011 @ 2:14 am

  19. Dear wee James is cute on the KB thread; thinking with his manparts and showing Ansell some love in what must be a difficult time. I think he deserves a spot on the list.

    Comment by Pascal's bookie — July 11, 2011 @ 7:39 am

  20. I’m not grinning about the Act implosion – I think it’s sad view on our current state of politics and parties, especially on representation from the right.

    I used to think Act deserved a minor place in parliament as they represented a minor constituency. But they are damaged goods, and it’s hard to see them survive.

    Surely the right can come up with something better than this.

    Comment by Pete George — July 11, 2011 @ 7:54 am

  21. Hat-tipping Rhinocrates

    http://robertguyton.blogspot.com/2011/07/best-comment.html

    Comment by robertguyton — July 11, 2011 @ 8:06 am

  22. Still, reckon they might get a bounce. Not 50%, or 10%, but wouldn’t be surprised by 3% or 4 in the next poll or two. Hope I’m wrong but there is a section of the electorate that are angry reactionary racist arseholes.

    Ansell’s mistake is in misidentifying that group as rational men and women who think like rational men, which suggests it’s larger than it is, and then disappointing everyone who is actually rational by speaking out loud.

    On the positive side, any bounce would encourage Brash and Perigo to double down on the crazy.

    Comment by TIm — July 11, 2011 @ 8:09 am

  23. “Still, reckon they might get a bounce.”

    Maybe, but all of these angry old white guys are in their corner already. It’s certainly got their brand out there…

    Comment by Guy Smiley — July 11, 2011 @ 8:21 am

  24. Remember – this is a party that’s not only in Parliament but in government with the Maori Party!

    So in a better position than most to know the truth?

    Comment by Graeme Edgeler — July 11, 2011 @ 8:43 am

  25. National Radio, the NZHerald and the rest of the media won’t take Kyle Chapman seriously or give him the time of day.

    Given that John Ansell’s propaganda and techniques (Provoking a race with the aim of polarising 20% of the country into supporting ACT just so they can get into parliament is the stuff of brownshirt dreaming) are indistinguishable from that of Chapman’s group, why is media still taking Ansell and ACT seriously? I would have thought these advertisments in the paper would have signalled the final demise of ACT as an orgasnisation worth bothering with.

    ACT have been polling in the margin of error for years. they are a collection of crackpots, extremists and plain lunatics. Yet because they command the support of a few equally extremist nutjobs with fat chequebooks, they get far, far, far more coverage than they deserve.

    Comment by Sanctuary — July 11, 2011 @ 8:51 am

  26. why is media still taking Ansell and ACT seriously?

    Is “they’re in Parliament.” too obvious an answer? If Kyle Chapman was the current leader of a party that had been in Parliament since 1996, which was also part of the government, the media would probably cover him more often.

    Comment by Graeme Edgeler — July 11, 2011 @ 9:04 am

  27. “…Is “they’re in Parliament.” too obvious an answer..?”

    It is time to call time on these bozos.

    Comment by Sanctuary — July 11, 2011 @ 9:21 am

  28. @ DeepRed — July 10, 2011 @ 10:08 pm

    I wonder where Ansell can go to now, the Tashkoff Party?

    I understand Vote for Change are looking for some creative talent.

    Comment by toad — July 11, 2011 @ 9:24 am

  29. It is time to call time on these bozos.

    As with the Alliance, that will be after they leave Parliament.

    Comment by Graeme Edgeler — July 11, 2011 @ 9:30 am

  30. Rex Weiderstrom is calling in KB on John Ansell to spell out the process of the advertisement approval to find out where John went from hero to zero in Brash’s eyes. So far Real Man John hasn’t responded. . .

    Comment by Owen — July 11, 2011 @ 10:04 am

  31. And I’m calling on Act to spell out where the party stands on women – or maybe that should be stomps on women.

    Ansell’s post resignation comments are his own personal view presumably but he has been closely involved with the Act culture, what is the geneder culture within Act?

    Women and Act?

    Comment by Pete George — July 11, 2011 @ 10:11 am

  32. Nice file category, Danyl. :D

    Comment by Ataahua — July 11, 2011 @ 10:17 am

  33. Pete George you linkwhore a lot.

    Comment by David C — July 11, 2011 @ 10:51 am

  34. Ansell, Brash and Odgers still thinks it’s about race…In politics they’re an evolutionary dead end.

    It’s never been about race. It’s always been about culture and for that, purity of blood doesn’t come into it. We’ll use the ‘one drop rule’, people like their ancestors created, and choose to culturally identify ourselves as Pasifikan.

    It’s inevitable that eventually Aotearoa will once again come under Pasifikan governance. What we’re seeing from ACT is the headless chicken running around dead, but doesn’t know it. 2 more generations and it’s game over for the eurocentric cultural supremacists.

    R. I .P and thanks for the memories…

    Comment by pollywog — July 11, 2011 @ 10:56 am

  35. why is media still taking Ansell and ACT seriously?

    More importantly, why have they ever. The answer to that question could reveal all anyone ever needs to know about NZ political history.

    There’s an easy thesis just sitting there for any keen young thing willing to troll through 30 years of archived newspapers and graph column-inches devoted to ACT against other minor parties and vote-share, time in govt, etc.

    Other interesting comparisons would be column-inches devoted to reporting polls when NACT is ahead (against when behind), and the last five years of “positive Key” inches and images against “negative Clark/Goff”.

    Comment by ak — July 11, 2011 @ 11:41 am

  36. See, what I love about what Ansell has done is it has brought out crackpots of all stripes for our amusement value.

    Keep up the good work, Pollywog.

    Comment by Gregor W — July 11, 2011 @ 11:42 am

  37. As a side note, as I sat munching my toast listening to Ansell on RNZ this morning, I suggested to Mrs W. that this whole thing might be a ‘race-bait, kill the messenger, making the Don look moderate’ manoeuvre.

    Mrs. W advised me that I was giving silly old white men too much credit.

    Comment by Gregor W — July 11, 2011 @ 11:49 am

  38. Keep your head buried in the sand Gregor…shame you haven’t got a clue what the real issues are and are too cowardly to face them even if you did.

    Seriously, do you think being Maori is about purity of blood and the ‘race’ card is being played because ACT are genuine in their concern for all NZ ?

    haha…you’d be a stupid bugger if you did.

    Comment by pollywog — July 11, 2011 @ 11:52 am

  39. That’s pretty unlikely Gregor. ACT’s potential supporters opposed Paul Henry and Alasdair Thompson being sacked for ‘telling it like it is’, so Brash is going to have a hard time justifying Ansell’s dismissal while defending his beliefs at dog whistle level.

    Brash created a monster here and it has come back to bite him.

    Comment by Newtown News — July 11, 2011 @ 11:59 am

  40. ACT’s meltdown makes Fukushima look puny

    Not one person died at Fukushima and nor is anyone likely to.

    This is bad for the Greens.

    Comment by johnsonmike — July 11, 2011 @ 12:15 pm

  41. The Prime Minister responds: he declares (paraphrase) that ACT are simultaneously irrelevant and essential, and black is white and not white …

    “What happens with him [Ansell] and the Act Party, frankly I don’t give a toss about, but at the end of the day I don’t think any of us would be surprised that he’s making those comments.”

    He said the comments would not sour National’s relationship with ACT.

    “We don’t share all the views that ACT quite clearly has but that doesn’t mean we can’t work with them, but we clearly don’t share all the views the
    Maori Party has either but we’ve certainly proved over the last three years that we can work with them as well.”

    Mr Key said the advert and comments would not affect National’s intentions regarding the Epsom electorate where it has essentially allowed ACT to win a seat, giving it a presence in parliament.

    Comment by sammy — July 11, 2011 @ 12:20 pm

  42. Not one person died at Fukushima and nor is anyone likely to.

    …and you know this how ?

    Comment by pollywog — July 11, 2011 @ 12:21 pm

  43. Actually, I think its a cunning plan by good friends Hone and Don to show us how ridiculous MMP really is.

    JC

    Comment by JC — July 11, 2011 @ 12:22 pm

  44. A rich reserve bank Governor like Brash screaming about ‘Maori Privilege’ is like the KKK Grand Cyclops bitching about social injustice

    ACT in racist meltdown – http://t.co/n7VWqlv

    Good riddance of bad rubbish

    Comment by nzbomberbomber — July 11, 2011 @ 12:31 pm

  45. Keep your head buried in the sand Gregor…shame you haven’t got a clue what the real issues are and are too cowardly to face them even if you did.

    Seriously, do you think being Maori is about purity of blood and the ‘race’ card is being played because ACT are genuine in their concern for all NZ ?

    haha…you’d be a stupid bugger if you did.

    What we have here is a failure to communicate my dear Pollywog, but do feel free to tell dazzle me, merely a cowardly, stupid white man, with your intellectual prowess by explaining what the ‘real’ issues are.

    I’m particularly interested in your interpretation of this issue in terms of the nascent rise of Pasifikan governance and the imminent destruction of the insidious eurocentric cultural supremacists, rather than, you know, some silly rascist having too much scotch before the sun hits the yard-arm and assisting in the immolation of a minor right-wing party.

    I look forward to being told what to think since you appear to know my mind better than I do.

    Comment by Gregor W — July 11, 2011 @ 1:18 pm

  46. This is bad news for James.

    Comment by Hobbes — July 11, 2011 @ 2:23 pm

  47. I reckon some Maori guy cut John Ansell’s lunch once

    Comment by Leg Break — July 11, 2011 @ 2:24 pm

  48. feel free to tell dazzle me, merely a cowardly, stupid white man, with your intellectual prowess by explaining what the ‘real’ issues are.

    Oh so now you want me to do your homework for you Gregor ? How about you what you put up what you think the real issues are and i’ll tell you if you’re right or wrong instead.

    Naturally, if you don’t you’re too cowardly to say and if you’re wrong, i’ll take it that you’re too stupid to know.

    As to my crackpot interpretation of this issue in terms of the nascent rise of Pasifikan governance and the imminent destruction of the insidious eurocentric cultural supremacists, which i posted solely for your entertainment…try dealing with this first. Theres clues in there about what the real issues are.

    Turning serious, Solomon considers why it matters that New Zealand get its bicultural identity sorted – why it is in the Pakeha self-interest as much as the Maori.

    The natural response of any majority is to ask “why should we change?” Regardless of past rights or wrongs, what counts is the weight of numbers right now. That defines the norm and so should determine a nation’s future course.

    But Solomon says that Pakeha (and Solomon’s mother was Pakeha) need to check their demographic facts because New Zealand’s future is increasingly brown.

    Maori have gone from 7 per cent of the population in 1951 to 14.5 per cent in 2006 and will be 17 per cent by 2026. Add in Pacifica and Asian, and the complexion of New Zealand will be even more changed.

    “By 2026, according to the Department of Statistics, Maori, Pacific Island and Asian will make up 42 per cent of the population. And if you do the extrapolation, by 2050, it’ll be 50 per cent, if not slightly more.”

    Solomon points out that there is also a big age tilt in the data. Most Pakeha will be pensioners by then.

    “By 2050, around 50 per cent of all Pakeha people in this country will be aged 65 or older. So whether this nation likes it or not, in 2050, the bulk of the tax-paying work force will be Maori, Pacific Island and Asian.”

    That is the reality that New Zealand has to be working towards, Solomon says. And now think about these figures.

    The way the country operates at the moment, he says, some 54 per cent of Maori boys and 58 per cent of Pacifica are leaving school without a qualification. Absolutely none. And these are the youth who will somehow need to be earning the money that pays the rest of the country’s health care and superannuation in future years.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch-earthquake-2011/5223148/Ngai-Tahus-legacy-set-to-grow

    …given that scenario, do you think we’ll still be under de facto eurocentric colonial rule ? How stupid do you think we are ? How little do you think we’ve learnt from our mistakes ?

    Enlightened Pasifikans reasserting natural governance over our own affairs, lands, seas and resources is hardly pandering to radicals. How bloody patronising thinking gov’ts can influence cultural evolution and the natural order in NZ anymore. Extrapolating trends and dealing with the likely outcome, that’s what ACT are truly afraid of. Faced with the reality of a changing demographic it’s privileged eurocentric backers can no longer control has got them grasping for anything to ensure political relevancy and survival.

    Fearmongering about the radical natives ? the yellow peril ? reds under the bed ?… *yawn*

    Now here’s the rub. You can choose to hold on to your racial bias and be marginalised, or you can choose to join Pasifikan culture in evolution and be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

    Are you up to the challenge ? If not, then theres planes back to wherever your ancestors came from, i suggest you get on board.

    Comment by pollywog — July 11, 2011 @ 2:32 pm

  49. Whoa back Tiger!

    That last statement ” theres planes back to wherever your ancestors came from, i suggest you get on board” applies equally to all on these shakey isles as no-one lived here until a few hundred years ago.

    Comment by will — July 11, 2011 @ 3:01 pm

  50. Maorification is just one of many ifications at play in poliitics, how bad is Maorification, really?

    By isolating just one lobby group Act are highlighting their real motives – hammering a racial wedge to try and save their party. Brash has a hard job continuing the “with us or against us” tactic when he’s now against the “creativity” he was with a couple of days ago.

    Comment by Pete George — July 11, 2011 @ 3:01 pm

  51. That last statement ” theres planes back to wherever your ancestors came from, i suggest you get on board” applies equally to all on these shakey isles as no-one lived here until a few hundred years ago.

    Naturally, though i’d rather go back by boat and with regard to these shaky isles, finders keepers :)

    http://www.pacificvoyagers.org/voyage/

    Comment by pollywog — July 11, 2011 @ 3:16 pm

  52. I stand corrected. You have ‘proven’ betond all reasonable doubt in your response that;
    (i) you alone can tell me whether I’m right or wrong (very handy!)
    (ii) I’m cowardly and/or I’m stupid because you say so.

    Now that we’ve got that out of the way, what I think of the ‘issue’ at stake is in post 45. Maybe you missed it. I’ll republish here for you; save you searching.

    “…some silly rascist having too much scotch before the sun hits the yard-arm and assisting in the immolation of a minor right-wing party…”.

    I don’t take ACT seriously in the same way I don’t take you seriously. Hyperbolic, vitriolic rabble rousers of all flavours deserve ridicule rather than indulgence.

    As to my ‘racial bias’ and being part of the problem (again, thanks for pointing out I’m an unrepentant fascist) I note that you use the “piss off back to your own country if you don’t like it” line of arguement.

    Truly, a rhetorical marvel.

    Comment by Gregor W — July 11, 2011 @ 3:16 pm

  53. So, the Pasifika population is increasing much faster than the Pakeha one, but more than half of the Pasifika kids are leaving school with no qualifications? I’m not seeing a master race in the making…

    Comment by Psycho Milt — July 11, 2011 @ 3:21 pm

  54. ACT’s wonderfully entertaining cock-ups seem to be generating some unintended collateral damage at the Dim Post

    Comment by Tinakori — July 11, 2011 @ 3:46 pm

  55. Wasn’t it lovely of the Herald to only report Ansell’s ‘white cowards’ remark as ‘cowards’ in the party, thereby leaving out the racism? Anyone would think the Herald had something to gain financially by ACT continuing to exist….. oh, wait….. aaaah, just pop the ad money on the desk Don.

    Comment by bob — July 11, 2011 @ 3:48 pm

  56. “Now here’s the rub. You can choose to hold on to your racial bias and be marginalised, or you can choose to join Pasifikan culture in evolution and be part of the solution, not part of the problem.”

    Seriously, Pollywog?

    You are sounding like a weird combination Samoan Don Brash – Fijian George Bush.

    Can’t we all chow-mates together in a cruizier Pacific sort of way without denigrating each other’s cultural origins or arguing for some kind of assimilation?

    Comment by Bill — July 11, 2011 @ 3:51 pm

  57. more than half of the Pasifika kids are leaving school with no qualifications?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/5238839/Maori-pupils-needs-not-met-by-system

    ahhh now theres one of them real issues the stupid and cowardly Gregor failed to acknowledge. The way i see it is, we’ve got 2 more generations to sort that out.

    So why is it Pasifikan youth employment stats are way above euro stats ? Is it because we’re dumb and lazy or because there’s an inherent euro bias against minorities, inclusive of women ?

    Maybe we should ask Alasdair Thompson that one. I’m sure he’s got the balls to answer .

    Comment by pollywog — July 11, 2011 @ 4:13 pm

  58. Pollywog, I suspect you’re in the wrong place if you’re looking for vocal disagreement that minorities are systematically discriminated against.

    Comment by The PC Avenger — July 11, 2011 @ 4:27 pm

  59. Pollywog, you do realise that Pakeha New Zealanders can’t just become British citizens by choice, right?

    Comment by Hugh — July 11, 2011 @ 4:27 pm

  60. What can I say, Pollywog. You got me. I confess.

    My failure acknowledge the supremacy of your worldview (as laid out in Stuff), my daring to mock your crackpot sophistry, nay, my very existence, is an intolerable injustice and an affront to civilised values.

    In fact, lets cut to the chase; the unremitting and savage oppression of brown people worldwide is, quite clearly, my personal mission. I mean, you’re diatribes prove it. Your logic is unassailable.

    Bad, stupid, cowardly, evil racist whitey! *slapping myself Len Brown style*

    Comment by Gregor W — July 11, 2011 @ 4:39 pm

  61. I sense an interesting symmetry between Jason and Pollywog

    Comment by kahikatea — July 11, 2011 @ 4:54 pm

  62. Shhh PC Avenger! Don’t burst the bubble. Pollywog is like the new James, but a bit less Galtian Overlord-y.

    Comment by Gregor W — July 11, 2011 @ 4:54 pm

  63. Back on topic (because the crazy pollies are a wee bit more important than crazy Polly) …

    Latest update in the mutual oxygen-fest – Brash and Sharples to “debate” on Maori TV tonight.

    Also, Ansell says Key was “lucky” the Christchurch earthquake happened.

    Stay tuned for more madness on the hour, every hour.

    Comment by sammy — July 11, 2011 @ 4:55 pm

  64. Is it because we’re dumb and lazy or because there’s an inherent euro bias against minorities, inclusive of women ?

    Er, right – because those are, like, the only possible explanations. I mean, what else could it possibly be?

    Comment by Psycho Milt — July 11, 2011 @ 5:04 pm

  65. Pollywog’s just got a chip on his shoulder and is constantly looking for a fight. He appeared on Public Address under three incarnations and was banned each time for his belligerent insistence that “It’s all about meeeeeeeee!!!!” Seen plenty of these sorts – professional victims in the advanced stages of testosterone poisoning.

    For some light relief, anyone remember Kenny Everett’s Angry of Mayfair? Proof that rogue elephants like Thompson and Ansell are hardly new:

    Comment by Rhinocrates — July 11, 2011 @ 5:10 pm

  66. Yeah yeah whatever, Gregor. You’re still a stupid coward who’d rather take the piss than put forward your honest views.

    Is it because we’re dumb and lazy or because there’s an inherent euro bias against minorities, inclusive of women ?

    Er, right – because those are, like, the only possible explanations. I mean, what else could it possibly be?

    you tell me Milty…

    and no Rhinocrates, i was banned from PA cos Russell Brown doesn’t like being challenged and shown up for being a boring conservative twat. He’d rather have an echo chamber of mindless, sycophantic zombies like yourself confirming his worldview than any real dissensus.

    i seen plenty of your sort of crawly bumlicking toadies come out of the woodwork only to disappear up their own arse quick smart when challenged.

    Comment by pollywog — July 11, 2011 @ 5:34 pm

  67. See?

    Comment by Rhinocrates — July 11, 2011 @ 5:41 pm

  68. There once was a troll, name of Pollywog
    Who stumbled upon the DimPost blog
    Abusing the denizens
    With ad hominem unpleasantness
    By Golly, be more of a Jollywog!

    Comment by Gregor W — July 11, 2011 @ 5:54 pm

  69. yeah we see…you come out of nowhere and insult me, then play the victim when i insult you back.

    what did you expect ?

    Media-academic Donald Matheson has castigated the general quality of debates on blogs where he says dissenting views are often met by vitriolic reactions.

    Matheson is a senior lecturer in communications and media at Canterbury University.

    He says that unlike in the US, where blog audiences are large and start to merge in with mainstream media, Kiwi blogland has developed into mostly small groups of people sharing common views.

    That is exacerbated by the so-called “echo chamber effect”, where people tune into blogs that reflect their own viewpoint, he says.

    Rather than tolerance, debates are often about “having a go” at people who do not follow the correct ideological line.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/john-drinnan/news/article.cfm?a_id=324&objectid=10737026

    now run along back to PA and have big wetty about me to all the other softcocks there or stick around and debate some of the salient points i’ve raised.

    Comment by pollywog — July 11, 2011 @ 6:03 pm

  70. Well, your first potential explanation has an obvious problem with low IQ or laziness not really varying much by ethnicity. The second one has an obvious problem with various minorities appearing to be really good at leaving school with qualifications. Seems to me you’d be better off looking for class-based explanations (eg, Maori are more likely than Pakeha to be working class or lumpenproletariat, and those classes tend not to do well at school ), which of course merely shifts the explanational deficit elsewhere, or perhaps cultural ones (eg, some Maori regarding education as a Pakeha thing). Knock yourself out, but those two you came up with won’t cut it.

    Comment by Psycho Milt — July 11, 2011 @ 6:11 pm

  71. there’s an inherent euro bias against minorities, inclusive of women

    Poly, women are not a minority. There are more women in New Zealand than men — 2,159,151 women to 2,107,347 men last time I looked.

    Women also live longer than men, on average 83 years to 78 years.

    Comment by johnsonmike — July 11, 2011 @ 6:15 pm

  72. Oooh looky, Gregors pulled out the troll line and made a disingenuous limerick about it.

    Who trolled who Gregor, who directed the first ad hominem abusing another denizen of dimpost ?

    it has brought out crackpots of all stripes for our amusement value.

    Keep up the good work, Pollywog.

    uhhh…that would be you, the stupid, lying coward.

    Comment by pollywog — July 11, 2011 @ 6:19 pm

  73. Pollywannacracker, I hardly consider myself your victim; I consider you a mild irritant that may be ephemerally amusing and then ultimately tiresomely narcissistic. Your ritualistic adolescent macho posturing does not command automatic respect, and my capacity to sustain erections is entirely irrelevant, as is yours.

    As the PC Avenger pointed out above, you could find plenty of agreement here, but you’ve chosen to start with attempts at offence. That would indicate that you are more interested in acting out some silly little drama starring yourself as a victim of evil white oppressors.

    Get to the essence of the argument and keep the willy-waving behind the bikesheds where it belongs. You could find a lot of agreement, but you’re not interested in that, are you?

    Comment by Rhinocrates — July 11, 2011 @ 6:20 pm

  74. Knock yourself out, but those two you came up with won’t cut it.

    Cool…so there is no nepotism or cronyism and discriminating of potential employees by predominantly eurocentric employers against Asians, Pasifikans, Africans and peoples of Semitic origin and so on and so forth.

    The higher unemployment rate of Pasifikan youth is solely down to lack of a decent education and for that we have total equality of opportunity. We just need to work like niggers to please the massa more.

    Ok got that.

    Comment by pollywog — July 11, 2011 @ 6:34 pm

  75. Good to see you playing the ball and not the man now Rhinocrates…oh hang on, thats not my hand down my pants…

    Spare me your psychobabble and petty insults. Either add value and make a cogent statement on the topic at hand or STFU and run along.

    Comment by pollywog — July 11, 2011 @ 6:41 pm

  76. You really must insist on proving my points, mustn’t you? Why should I spare you? You obviously have no desire to spare anyone else – so why on earth would you therefore find criticism of your unnecessarily belligerent manner inappropriate? My point is that discussion can be conducted here in a civil tone and I believe that that does matter.

    And you really presume the right to order me off this blog?

    The very, very small scintilla of actual contribution to any discussion instead of the torrent of gratuitous abuse that you have contributed is in fact something that I would in essence agree with. At post #57, the article you link to is significant indeed, though the specific article is hardly substantial. Tolley is a pigheaded idiot and we all know that.

    It has been my experience with many Maori and Pasifika students at tertiary level that the education system is not culturally geared for them. One problem I think is the emphasis on terminal assessment, which is detached, inflexible and a holdover from traditions of rote learning. I’ve done a lot of work with formative assessment, which involves constant contact and feedback and less emphasis on the final grade and it’s far more productive for everyone. The problem I think is in budgetary priorities – too much university budgeting is diverted to capital expenditure and too little to the operational needs of teaching. Teachers, and their time, and formative assessment are very expensive, and if budgets are capped, then priorities have to shift first to teaching and away from buildings.

    There, you see? Now why must you insist on making a fight of it?

    Comment by Rhinocrates — July 11, 2011 @ 7:03 pm

  77. Christ dude, seek help.

    Comment by greg — July 11, 2011 @ 7:09 pm

  78. It has been my experience with many Maori and Pasifika students at tertiary level that the education system is not culturally geared for them.

    So what else, in your opinion, needs to happen in the education sector to improve employment opportunities for Maori and Pasifikans that wont be seen as pandering to radical notions ?

    Is it really as simple as more money for teachers ?

    Comment by pollywog — July 11, 2011 @ 7:21 pm

  79. so there is no nepotism or cronyism and discriminating of potential employees by predominantly eurocentric employers against Asians, Pasifikans, Africans and peoples of Semitic origin and so on and so forth

    If you look at employment statistics by ethnicity, people who identify themselves as ‘Asian’ are the least likely to be unemployed – even less so than Europeans. So I think you’re quite wrong to include them in your ‘eurocentric employers’ hitlist.

    And, given that it’s actually very much illegal to ask about a persons religious beliefs in the interview or application process, I struggle to see how you can have Jewish people on the list too.

    Comment by Phil — July 11, 2011 @ 7:22 pm

  80. too much time on too many hands makes this thread fucking retarded.

    Comment by abel the amish — July 11, 2011 @ 7:36 pm

  81. Not as simple as more money for teachers, that was only an example.

    Re terminal versus formative assessment, terminal assessment means a grade at the end for a submitted assignment, exam or whatever – which is too late to be of any use except for an employer looking at a CV and certainly not the student.

    Formative assessment means marking drafts or preliminary work and ensuring that the student receives the feedback well before the final submission date (and then they still may receive a final grade). There is in my opinion far more real learning that takes place here – the student knows what they’re doing poorly and is told how to improve, begins to see how they can monitor their own performance and the process is one of discourse and mutual respect rather than alienation, which enhances self-confidence. The teacher can also discover any special needs that the student may have and tailor their style accordingly.

    The problem with this is that it is very expensive in terms of time for the teacher, teacher-student ratios must be very low and therefore many more hours of teaching must be paid for. Spending is a consequence, not a solution.

    One method that is increasingly being tried to avoid extra cost is to teach students to critique each other to the same ends as above. Technology and social media can help – there is a commonly-used application called Blackboard which is usually used as a means of delivering announcements and resources, but it can also allow students to blog and curricula can be organised to make the interaction between students a crucial part of the assignment structure.

    I’ve seen (and practised) these methods mainly in writing and design classes, where the creative process is the whole object anyway, but it should be applicable to other subjects.

    As for whether it could be seen as “pandering to radical elements”. Frankly, any opportunistic politician could take aquarium gravel as an example of Political Correctness Gone Mad.

    Comment by Rhinocrates — July 11, 2011 @ 7:36 pm

  82. Yeah i can just see Brash frothing rabidly if it’s suggested that the answer to improving Maori and Pasifikan employment opportunities though education is to provide more money to mollycoddle them through their studies.

    I do like the idea of peer assisted studying and assessment though. Thats something Pasifikans, inclusive of Maori, can at least do for ourselves and something which we traditionally value. I’m all for collective responsibility…each one, teach one.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Each_One_Teach_One

    Comment by pollywog — July 11, 2011 @ 8:00 pm

  83. In practice, the peer-assisted learning does require a lot of moderation from the teacher/co-ordinator to keep things on track and dampen conflict. Criticism has to be constructive – that is something that can be the foundation for pragmatic development, rather than denigration. The focus is on rewarding confidence and the ability to be constructively self-critical and willing to take risk and initiative. In a school environment, social competition may take over, so that’s where moderation or supervision maters.

    Indeed, Tolley would have fits too. This is all quite the diametric opposite of National Standards, which are based on the alienating, rote-learning model, which doesn’t teach skills that are relevant even in twenty-first century Europe, let alone here.

    Comment by Rhinocrates — July 11, 2011 @ 8:10 pm

  84. “National Standards, which are based on the alienating, rote-learning model”

    What? NS is about measuring outcomes on a common scale.

    Comment by abel the amish — July 11, 2011 @ 8:14 pm

  85. We just had parent teacher interviews for our 5 and 7 yr old. Neither have achieved national standards for reading or writing for their age but we’re not really worried. It matters little at that age. If by the time they’re 10 or so and not got a handle on it i’ll be worried and staging some sort of intervention. I really doubt it’ll get to that though.

    We had our older kids go through kura kaupapa with english as basically a second language at school, then mainstreamed them for their senior high school years and they haven’t suffered for it in the least.
    They’re actually high performing students with very set goals.

    http://pollywannacracka.blogspot.com/2011/07/not-cold-at-alljust-warming-up.html :)

    As Pasifikan/Maori they don’t take criticism too well but they do take direction exceedingly well and prosper in group learning settings better, given mutual respect of course.

    Comment by pollywog — July 11, 2011 @ 8:25 pm

  86. Good to hear you’ve guided them well which is of course the key.

    Comment by abel the amish — July 11, 2011 @ 8:35 pm

  87. Exactly. It’s aimed at producing outcomes according to a rigid model. It has nothing to do with developing actual cognitive skills. I can open a volume of the Encyclopaedia Britannica and it will produce “outcomes” in terms of providing me with information, but that bundle of cellulose is incapable of thought or flexibility or adaptability.

    The most common criticism of NS voiced by teachers is that it will require “teaching to the exam”, that is, teaching only that which produces a single outcome, not teaching that fosters cognitive skills.

    Even if one reduces education to a system for making workers (forgetting about them being citizens), this is irrelevant today. The nineteenth and early twentieth century workplace may have demanded the kind of unsentient automata that were the flesh-and-blood components of assembly lines, but in the real world, today, jobs can change and become obsolete overnight, people will have portfolios of jobs to make their careers, not a job for life a la Gliding On

    I don’t dispute the value of assessment per se, but NS belongs in the era of Brunel and Ford. Actually, even Brunel would despise it.

    Comment by Rhinocrates — July 11, 2011 @ 8:37 pm

  88. They’re actually high performing students with very set goals.

    Good for you. Cheers.

    Comment by Rhinocrates — July 11, 2011 @ 8:39 pm

  89. I think there is a middle road Rhino and would argue that the State Schooling System as erred on the side of gobbledygook with regard School Reports and comprehensible Student Assessment measures.

    Comment by abel the amish — July 11, 2011 @ 8:41 pm

  90. Possibly Abel, I won’t press the point regarding primary and secondary education as I’m not a parent yet and I work in the tertiary sector, but I think that one has to learn to live with vague reports. An accurate answer to “what’s two times three?” is “uh, about half a dozen” while a precise answer is “5.14″. The latter looks reassuringly authoritative, but ultimately it’s deceptive. D’Israeli had something to say about that, I believe…

    Comment by Rhinocrates — July 11, 2011 @ 8:57 pm

  91. I think we’ll probably disagree on some things :)

    Comment by abel the amish — July 11, 2011 @ 9:00 pm

  92. I’ll live with that too… until I have kids :)

    Comment by Rhinocrates — July 11, 2011 @ 9:07 pm

  93. My littlies teachers make token references to National Standards in their reports merely to satisfy Tolley’s edict i reckon, but i don’t think theyr’e changing their teaching styles or give too much weight to comparing kids to any ideal. They, and we, realise that no two kids are the same and that ‘one size fits all’ teaching or reporting doesnt work for everyone.

    Even comparing my 7 yr old to the 5 yr old, theres things they do better than each other irrespective of age, and personality wise, they’re chalk and cheese. I wouldn’t want it any other way. They’re kids not programmed automatons.

    Regardless of whatever happens to them as kids, as adults they’ll choose to be whatever they wish and accept responsibiltiy for their actions. I have no doubt they’ll succeed in whatever they decide to do, though it probably wont be because of me, it’ll be in spite of me :)

    Comment by pollywog — July 11, 2011 @ 9:26 pm

  94. wont be because of me, it’ll be in spite of me

    Therefore because of you. :)

    Hang on, once they get through their teens and into their mid twenties, you’ll see.

    Comment by Rhinocrates — July 11, 2011 @ 10:08 pm

  95. @ Pollywog

    I did want to point out to you difference between sarcasm and ad hominem attacks; but seeing as you’ve mellowed under the influence of honourable Rhinocrates there’s really no point and, I have a sneaking suspicion, you might take it badly.

    Comment by Gregor W — July 11, 2011 @ 10:52 pm

  96. James is an idiot in the throes of puberty who thinks that he knows everything that he needs to know already. Maybe he’ll mellow in a few years. Pollywog’s lived a real life and I respect him for that. I’m surprised, but I’ll say that I’ve learned (we may yet argue violently, mind).

    Comment by Rhinocrates — July 11, 2011 @ 11:19 pm

  97. By the way, I’m not white. Billy Connelly put it perfectly: “The Scots are pale blue – it takes weeks of tanning to turn us white!”

    Comment by Rhinocrates — July 11, 2011 @ 11:30 pm

  98. Do we even care about ACT? This is the advantage of our current system of representation, even the neanderthals get represented in parliament.

    Comment by annie — July 12, 2011 @ 8:39 am

  99. Unless you’re African, about four percent of your genes are Neanderthal.

    Comment by Rhinocrates — July 12, 2011 @ 9:03 am

  100. This is good news for Neanderthals, given that they definitely hold more than 4% of parliamentary seats.
    A triumph of pluralism.

    Comment by Gregor W — July 12, 2011 @ 10:05 am

  101. Finally found some commentary from James!

    “Totally wrong.ACT is in fact the only pro individual Maori party in Parliament and when gone all that will remain are the welfare drug-dealers poisoning Maori into self inflicted genocide and soul death.Go read what Ansell ACTUALLY wanted to say http://whaleoil.gotcha.co.nz/index.php/2011/07/the-ad-ansell-wanted-run/ and tell me what is REALLY racist about it.Come on…put up.”

    This is good news for ACT

    Comment by Hobbes — July 12, 2011 @ 1:08 pm

  102. “Former head of Federated Farmers Don Nicolson has been confirmed as a candidate for the Act Party this for November’s election, and is expected to have a high list ranking.”

    From this afternoon’s Herald.

    This is good news for all the people who want to see ACT dead and buried, recognised at large as a party of fringe lunatics.

    Comment by MeToo — July 12, 2011 @ 5:41 pm

  103. Act is the party of the strong father? general leading his men in a war for civilization????

    WTF ?!?!?

    Dare I make the comparison?

    Comment by Jason — July 12, 2011 @ 9:23 pm


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