I love Duncan Garner’s story about police deploying Maori Wardens during the world cup, legally empowered to remove drunk Maori from bars. This seems like an important issue for ACT to address, given their leader’s staunch opposition to racially targeted legislation and his commitment to ‘one law for all’.
A Maori Warden may at any reasonable time enter any licensed premises in any area where he is authorised to carry out his duties and warn the licensee or any servant of the licensee to abstain from selling or supplying liquor to any Maori who in the opinion of the Warden is in a state of intoxication, or is violent, quarrelsome, or disorderly, or is likely to become so, whether intoxicated or not, and if the licensee or any servant of the licensee thereafter on the same day supplies liquor to that Maori
What I took from that.. is Garner is young and not very good at research.
http://www.tpk.govt.nz/en/in-focus/wardens/
I haven’t been to a pub in years, but in my youth the Wardens moved through the bars of all reasonable sized towns in the North Island. They were friendly, often carried themselves with dignity and just quietly talked to people.. I still see them at public events doing crowd or traffic control. The bigger story is that bar owners don’t want them around.. and that says something about their commitment to responsible drinking.
JC
Comment by JC — August 10, 2011 @ 9:39 am
Good Lord, best pretend i am from Israel then.
Comment by Sanctuary — August 10, 2011 @ 9:42 am
I personally would love to have this law broadened to include people of any race. Then we could call Maori wardens to remove anyone who looked likely to become quarrelsome. How much easier life would be if all who might be quarrelsome were hauled away.
The beauty is that if I nick you on suspicion of being likely to be quarrelsome, you can’t argue with that…
Comment by Stephen — August 10, 2011 @ 9:43 am
It’s funny when I was a teenager, and a later student, it was the white middle class rugbyheads that were more likely to get aggro when pissed and cause trouble. The kind that had been big fish in small towns then go to uni, find they were just one of a crowd and start trying to beat their way to the top of that particular pecking order.
Comment by Greville — August 10, 2011 @ 9:45 am
Sanctuary: what.
Comment by Stephen Judd — August 10, 2011 @ 10:51 am
The Israel thing only works in Southland – they don’t take kindly to strangers round there.
Comment by insider — August 10, 2011 @ 11:01 am
That’s OK, ACT are just going to operate as a very minor party respectful of their vote share, as per: “Third parties have been tempted to exercise power beyond their mandate” and “There was no way [Winston Peters] had a mandate to demand to be Treasurer in 1996, nor Foreign Minister in 2005″
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10744006
Comment by garethw — August 10, 2011 @ 11:47 am
This seems like an important issue for ACT to address, given their leader’s staunch opposition to racially targeted legislation and his commitment to ‘one law for all’.
I suspect the media comment will end with the following statement:
“The law is unlikely to be able to be enforced as we all know that there are no full-blooded Maori left.”
Comment by Graeme Edgeler — August 10, 2011 @ 11:57 am
It goes without saying that this is an actual honest to God reported in the papers example of police racism, yes? I realised suddenly that merely making a flippant remark might obscure this.
Comment by Stephen Judd — August 10, 2011 @ 12:43 pm
It goes without saying that this is an actual honest to God reported in the papers example of police racism, yes?
Maori wardens aren’t new, do a good job and generally operate with the support of Maori communities so it’s not necessarily racism.
I’m not convinced that they would be that effective in Courtmey Place but if the intention is to have the wardens intervene in a manner that de-escalates situations better than otherwise then it could be worth considering.
But I can see problems with them operating where there are people from other countries who wont be aware of the background.
Comment by NeilM — August 10, 2011 @ 1:03 pm
It goes without saying that this is an actual honest to God reported in the papers example of police racism, yes?
No. It may need to be said, and it may be debateable.
Could this be an example of racism by bar owners: “we’re not letting them Maori Wardens in here” etc. ?
Alternatively, could it be racism against non-Maori? Why do disruptive aggressive drunk Maori get treated in a manner outside the criminal justice, without any power of arrest, but disruptive agrgressive non-Maori can only be dealt with by police, with powers of arrest, etc?
Comment by Graeme Edgeler — August 10, 2011 @ 1:07 pm
There are Maori Wardens on some of the late night trains on Friday and Saturday nights in Auckland.
Of course, with their jackets and wearing sunglasses in the middle of the night they can be a little intimidating the first time you see them, until you recognize the logo.
Comment by Nick — August 10, 2011 @ 1:18 pm
I can’t possibly see this kind of law as non-racist. I can understand the value of wardens for drunks, that’s quite a good idea, but to limit it to Maori seems outrageous. How the hell do you tell if someone is Maori anyway? Half of my Maori mates look white, and half of my brown Maori looking mates are actually Pacific Islanders. This seems like an excuse to get stuck into brown people and as such is a really fucked idea.
Comment by Ben Wilson — August 10, 2011 @ 1:18 pm
these links provide some background, doesn’t look so bad in context
http://www.tpk.govt.nz/en/in-print/our-publications/newsletters/maori-wardens-newsletter—-setember-2010/download/tpk-maoriwardensnewsept-2010-en.pdf
http://www.tewahanui.info/wordpress2/?p=4280
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/5421213/Archaic-Maori-Warden-law-review
Comment by NeilM — August 10, 2011 @ 1:19 pm
I can understand the value of wardens for drunks, that’s quite a good idea, but to limit it to Maori seems outrageous.
That is indeed a major issue for those recognising some utility in the use of Maori Wardens in such circumstances.
This seems like an excuse to get stuck into brown people and as such is a really fucked idea.
Or is it an excuse not to get stuck into “brown people”? “Brown people” can now be dealt with outside the criminal justice system … if you want authorities to remove a “non-brown person” from a bar, it will have to police.
Comment by Graeme Edgeler — August 10, 2011 @ 1:31 pm
a friend of mine who has been a maori warden says, yes the law around Maori wardens is racist, but that how they actually use their power is not racist. They mostly use powers of persuasion and not legal power, with people of all races.
Comment by Kahikatea — August 10, 2011 @ 1:43 pm
How the hell do you tell if someone is Maori anyway?
Especially if they have just yodelled up all their technicolour and look green.
Comment by Pete George — August 10, 2011 @ 1:59 pm
I can understand the value of wardens for drunks, that’s quite a good idea, but to limit it to Maori seems outrageous.
Weirdly Section 33(1) goes on to say (emphasis mine): “Any person, whether a Maori or not, who is under the influence of intoxicating liquor in any Maori meeting house or church or other building or meeting place where Maoris are assembled and who refuses to leave the same when requested so to do commits an offence against this Act.” Then, subsection 5 continues to say that the liquor can be confiscated by Maori Wardens no matter who the person is, unless it’s there for medicinal or religious purposes.
It seems very dated, almost as if it were dreamed up in the 1940s (then rewritten in ’62) to give isolated Maori communities an ability to have legally assigned wardens with some police powers, to help police themselves when regular police weren’t available or interested in getting involved. That seems to contradict how it’s actually used, though.
Comment by MikeM — August 10, 2011 @ 2:17 pm
I’ve always thought the Wardens were kinda like youth workers or Pacific outreach programmes – a set of people that are better equipped, trained and recognised for a dealing with a particular subculture. You can call that racist if you want but it’s really just recognising that certain groups respond to certain tactics.
Comment by garethw — August 10, 2011 @ 2:18 pm
>Or is it an excuse not to get stuck into “brown people”?
Either way it’s not good. The choice to get stuck in should be colorblind.
>yes the law around Maori wardens is racist, but that how they actually use their power is not racist. They mostly use powers of persuasion and not legal power, with people of all races.
I can well imagine that being the case, and as such that the practice would probably serve some limited good. Any time people wearing fluoro come into a bar looking to sort out trouble, it cools all patrons down, in proportion to how cool the wardens themselves are. In this case, they’re wardens who happen to be Maori, rather than wardens *of* Maori.
However, there’s a whole lot wrong with something like this being enshrined in law. They *can* use their legal powers on Maori, and not on non-Maori. If the removal of difficult people from a bar involves (as it very often can) violence, then I can’t see that it’s a good thing that our legal system could be examining the blood line of the person to work out if it was assault or just a reasonable use of a legal power. I expect it would not come to that, however. Any time someone is violent, the bar usually wants them gone, so their own wish to have the person ejected would probably coincide with the warden’s and the power would not end up getting tested in law. Quite aside from the fact that drunks very seldom press charges unless they are actually injured, and then only if they can actually remember what happened, which after a few drinks and a punch in the head is not so easy.
Comment by Ben Wilson — August 10, 2011 @ 2:27 pm
The wording of the law is archaic and Sharples says it’ll be revised in the near future but the the operations of the wardens have been postive and looking at the details of how they will operate during RWC I can’t see a problem. The problem’s with the bar operators interviewed.
Comment by NeilM — August 10, 2011 @ 2:29 pm
>The problem’s with the bar operators interviewed.
Sort of. They do have a rather legitimate concern about people who are allowed to enter their “place of getting intoxicated”, pick on some people on the grounds of their apparent race, and force them to leave. Bars already have security for that purpose, who are following their directions, most of which are around allowing people to get intoxicated so long as they are not causing trouble. It’s how they make money.
Comment by Ben Wilson — August 10, 2011 @ 2:42 pm
Some will be sweet: I went to school with a few Maori girls who could pass as Italian or Spanish.
“Any time people wearing fluoro come into a bar looking to sort out trouble, it cools all patrons down, ”
It worked better in the days before stab-proof vests: seeing the police in white helmits and short-shelved blue shirts always made me feel relaxed and summery, rather than pent-up and bashy.
Comment by Clunking Fist — August 10, 2011 @ 3:03 pm
actually I think that should be:
the problem’s with the bar owners being feed leading questions by an ill-informed journalist.
It took me 1 min to google “maori wardens rwc”, browse the top entries, glance thru the most relevant and come to an understanding of what actually was being planned – which was a long way from the sensationalist lead-in to the story.
to quote just one bit:
However, he said the Maori Wardens would only be going into bars in Wellington city as a last resort as the Council was aware having them exercise their powers over random individuals could have negative consequences. “They will be taking a softly softly approach.”
While used in other parts of greater Welllington, the Maori Wardens would be an unusual sight on the streets of Wellington but would add to the mix of security on the streets such as Police and the Council’s Streetwise wardens.
Comment by NeilM — August 10, 2011 @ 3:12 pm
More to the point, when are we going to get some Chinese Wardens to clear up those languid and befuddled Celestials from the Opium dens?
Comment by Gregor W — August 10, 2011 @ 4:54 pm
It would be interesting to check out the Hansard from the Bill’s progress. That might throw light on whose initiative it was. It might have been an example of tino rangitiratanga that doesn’t look so flash 50 years later. Given Maori wardens required enthusiastic Maori participation on both sides of the equation I find it hard to believe it was wholly an exercise in Pakeha paternalism. The boundary between who was Maori and who Pakeha was also lot sharper in those days and the places wardens operated would have been far more clear cut. There’s an excellent comedy to be written about Maori wardens in contemporary Courtenay Place.
Comment by Tinakori — August 10, 2011 @ 5:34 pm
“but would add to the mix of security on the streets such as Police and the Council’s Streetwise wardens.”
I wondered why these people existed. I thought it had something to do with mopping up unemployment.
Comment by Clunking Fist — August 10, 2011 @ 7:26 pm
I personally would love to have this law broadened to include people of any race.
Um, we do Stephen – it’s call enforcing the licensing laws we already have on the books that apply to everyone. Then again, if the Police either don’t care (or are too under-staffed and resourced to do their bloody jobs) before the RWC, I don’t see how the creative outsourcing in turning the Maori Wardens into race-based bouncers will do a blind bit of good.
Comment by Craig Ranapia — August 11, 2011 @ 1:27 am
And while the usual suspects are at it, what about dusting off the Mental Defectives Act of 1911? And sodomy laws too?
Comment by DeepRed — August 11, 2011 @ 2:18 am
I believe the sodomy laws were reversed by the Income Tax Act 2007 to ensure all citizens were compulsorily and efficiently rogered on a periodic basis.
Comment by Gregor W — August 12, 2011 @ 4:23 pm