The Dim-Post

January 30, 2012

Two modern phenomenon I simply don’t understand

Filed under: general idiocy — danylmc @ 11:29 am

The first is the proliferation of religious leaders denouncing homosexuality who turn out to be closeted gay men. The second is the inclination for companies and other organisations to grant their executives vast pay increases irrespective of their performance.

Maybe these things are linked in some occult yet powerful way.

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46 Comments »

  1. I love the ticker on this

    http://gayhomophobe.com/

    Day 44 everybody!

    Comment by Oh Busby — January 30, 2012 @ 11:46 am

  2. That and the continued popularity of Jersey Shore

    Comment by max — January 30, 2012 @ 11:50 am

  3. The Season 5 US premiere of Jersey Shore saw a big drop in ratings. There’s hope for humanity yet, if you look hard enough.

    Comment by bradluen — January 30, 2012 @ 11:54 am

  4. Executives tend to live in an alternative (but overlapping) dimension which has different rates of inflation. In real terms it was actually a pay cut.

    Comment by MikeM — January 30, 2012 @ 12:11 pm

  5. Let me have a stab at connecting them. It’s about club membership. The closet gays want to be part of the macho man of god club. The frauds vote each other pay rises because theyre in the ‘made it’ club. The pathology for both consists in their failure to acknowledge that their desires dont give them licence to do what they want. Theyre still a part of this world and its rules. Oh and btw, One phenomenon, two phenomena.

    Comment by Vortex — January 30, 2012 @ 12:41 pm

  6. But if there is no Jersey Shore, where will my Twitter come from?

    Comment by Phil — January 30, 2012 @ 1:10 pm

  7. *weeps* Phenomena, Danyl. (plural)

    There’s a theory (Jung, I think) that people hate their shadow selves – such as those men with gay tendencies who don’t want to be gay so are vociferous in their hatred toward homosexuality. I think Graham Capill’s overt religious stance can fall into that ‘shadow man’ category too.

    Comment by Ataahua — January 30, 2012 @ 1:11 pm

  8. Danyl, Stephen Levitt (Freakanomics) stumbled across the reason for you second point while analysing the economics of the drug trade http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/steven_levitt_analyzes_crack_economics.html

    Comment by R Singers — January 30, 2012 @ 1:16 pm

  9. The problems arose when job titles changed, and directors/councillors/etc were told that “experts” were required to ensure remuneration was commensurate with the current market. That starts a upwards spiral staircase where organisations have to match and exceed the previous salary levels for the job category, as defined by external experts who hawk their “skills” around the same market.

    I’ve no idea how to reverse the trend, perhaps reverting to old job titles might help, eg ” Town Clerk”, “administration assistant”, etc., combined with increased taxation classifications for administration positions that include “manager”, “executive” in their descriptions.

    There’s a high probability that more peanuts only results in obese monkeys, and is unrelated to performance or ability.

    Comment by Bruce Hamilton — January 30, 2012 @ 1:22 pm

  10. Well companies have to do something with the money they aren’t paying to their employees.

    Comment by Jimmy — January 30, 2012 @ 1:40 pm

  11. “The first is the proliferation of religious leaders denouncing homosexuality who turn out to be closeted gay men.”

    What? Where? When?

    Comment by Adolf Fiinkensein — January 30, 2012 @ 1:55 pm

  12. Was it Gaynor who had quite a good stab at the second question this weekend? Oram maybe?
    The brake on executive salary is the shareholdes via their board not wanting to hand over their returns without reason. Problem is that most major shareholders these days are institutions that don’t really care about that sort of stuff and are in the same “club” as theirexecutives.

    Comment by garethw — January 30, 2012 @ 1:57 pm

  13. Not a recent problem: Fortune did a cover story on it about a decade ago (?) where I think they abscribed it to CEO capture of the picking of the compensation consultants, plus the general tendency of directors to be comfortable with forking out large sums to people who looked like them.

    Comment by Owen — January 30, 2012 @ 3:10 pm

  14. Yes, Danyl, yes.

    The 21st Century is full of oddities.

    Did you know that there are people that actually believe two men can marry each other?

    Bizarre huh?

    But of course as everybody should know it takes a man and a woman to conceive a child.

    Comment by Andrei — January 30, 2012 @ 3:15 pm

  15. I’ve seen lots of evidence of the latter claim, but none of the first. Isolated examples like Capill, sure, but evidence? Can you give some data supporting a “…proliferation of religious leaders denouncing homosexuality who turn out to be closeted gay men…” please, Danyl? I must have missed it.

    Besides, leaders failing to live up to the beliefs/policies of their church/religion/organisation (whether gay vicars or cops on the take) is not proof the belief is wrong, just that that person failed to live up to that standard.

    By contrast, execs getting pay rises beyond a comparable level of success of their business is unjustifiable, as it is retrospective. That is, after reviewing a poor result for the business, the remuneration committee of the Board still gives the CEO a fat pay rise…hard to justify that, as Tony Maryatt and Bob Parker are now finding ;)

    Comment by bob — January 30, 2012 @ 3:34 pm

  16. phenomable

    Comment by Cnr Joe — January 30, 2012 @ 3:54 pm

  17. Adolf and bob, read the link in comment 1 for USA examples.

    Comment by MeToo — January 30, 2012 @ 4:01 pm

  18. Adolf and bob, read the link in comment 1 for USA examples.

    LOL

    So some some sad little individual collects a random assortment scandals about small time mayors and Finnish Lutheran Pastors who get included on his list if they can in some way be associated with the right or Christianity.

    Comment by Andrei — January 30, 2012 @ 4:55 pm

  19. The best way to prevent yourself from being found out it to denounce gays. Similar to the way that some gay men in decades past might engage in a little poofter bashing with their friends in order to prevent anyone from suspecting they might be one too, or the way that some shiites in Saudi Arabia sometimes engage in shiite-bashing with their friends in order to prevent their friends realising they might be one too.

    Comment by chiz — January 30, 2012 @ 5:06 pm

  20. Andrei:But of course as everybody should know it takes a man and a woman to conceive a child.

    Although there are societies, mainly in South America that believe that multiple men can contribute to the conception of a child.

    Comment by chiz — January 30, 2012 @ 5:49 pm

  21. Although there are societies, mainly in South America that believe that multiple men can contribute to the conception of a child.

    And there are societies that believe farting cows are melting the North Pole – no end to the absurd things that people might believe is there?

    Comment by Andrei — January 30, 2012 @ 6:06 pm

  22. Adolf: These. There. Then. http://www.ranker.com/list/top-10-anti-gay-activists-caught-being-gay/joanne

    Andrei: Your point is … ? I assume it must be that only couples who are able to have children ought to be permitted to marry, given the apparent necessity you must be capable of procreating. So will you tell my wife our marriage is invalid, or do I have to do it?

    Comment by Andrew Geddis — January 30, 2012 @ 6:19 pm

  23. Oh, yeah … and DPF has much the same views on the first issue as danyl: http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2010/09/more_hypocrisy.html. Not sure he’d be on the same page on the second, but.

    Comment by Andrew Geddis — January 30, 2012 @ 6:41 pm

  24. Is it just me or does Andrei’s comment @14 equate marriage with conception? I mean, without even a wang going into a minge?

    Comment by QoT — January 30, 2012 @ 6:44 pm

  25. Did you know that there are people that actually believe two men can marry each other?

    Given that they can, this is an unremarkable observation, not “bizarre” belief.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_legislation_around_the_world

    Comment by Steve Parkes — January 30, 2012 @ 7:14 pm

  26. Sorry but what is the point of this?

    Comment by gn — January 30, 2012 @ 7:59 pm

  27. It’s now about Andrei pointing out that the world has been a bit shit since the someone (probably a gay jebus hater) invented science and facts and stuff.

    Comment by Gregor W — January 30, 2012 @ 8:29 pm

  28. @gn: “Sorry but what is the point of this?”

    The very fact you see fit to ask that question makes me think this is not the place for you … if you can identify a Dimpost thread that has a discernable point to it, you win a chocolate fish.

    Comment by Grassed Up — January 30, 2012 @ 8:48 pm

  29. “The second is the inclination for companies and other organisations to grant their executives vast pay increases irrespective of their performance.”

    Quite simple, really. Such organisations have become a law unto themselves, via deregulation, cronyism and outright bribery. Only now they’ve pushed their luck and gone pear shaped, just as the British Leyland unions did the same in the 1970s.

    Comment by DeepRed — January 30, 2012 @ 9:03 pm

  30. Oh, it’s flippin’ obvious: both phenomena reflect the extent to which privileged groups are quite happy to preach one thing and do something completely different. … Y’all are already there, aren’t you?

    Comment by QoT — January 30, 2012 @ 11:11 pm

  31. I find it interesting that the folks who scream the loudest about this Maryatt’s payrise are those who carry on about how a council should have ‘more business people on it’, and ‘be more business like’, and that ‘its a multimillion dollar business’, etc.

    Well, guys, there it is, you want it to be a business, well, you have to accept the business level salaries as well.

    Comment by millsy — January 30, 2012 @ 11:35 pm

  32. millsy #31: “I find it interesting that the folks who scream the loudest about this Maryatt’s payrise are those who carry on about how a council should have ‘more business people on it’, and ‘be more business like’, and that ‘its a multimillion dollar business’, etc.”

    Hmmm… left wingers (led by Mike Coleman) and right wingers (led by Hugh Pavletich) teaming up against a Right-leaning council defending executive salaries that are ‘competitive with the private sector’ – not a lot different from business lobbyists who cite ‘internationally attractive salaries’ for CEOs. Confused? So am I.

    Comment by DeepRed — January 31, 2012 @ 12:24 am

  33. Maybe these things are linked in some occult yet powerful way.

    It’s not really mysterious. The relationship is: Humans are often hypocrites.

    Comment by Ben Wilson — January 31, 2012 @ 10:37 am

  34. Andrei: the DimPost’s new pet troll? Get your coat will, you’re no longer required.

    Comment by The Green Blazer — January 31, 2012 @ 10:39 am

  35. I’m pretty sure the first one is just a realisation that, say, 5% of people identify towards the homosexual end of the spectrum and that this mirrors throughout the religious establishment (regardless of their archaic views on that fact). The hypocrisy is what makes it stand out, not any particular over-representation.

    Comment by garethw — January 31, 2012 @ 10:53 am

  36. Andrei’s dilemma? He only wants people who can have kids to be married, but he doesn’t want them to prove it before they get married.

    Comment by Pete George — January 31, 2012 @ 2:23 pm

  37. The issues affecting the CCC are much larger than Marryatt’s pay, people suggesting otherwise either haven’t been paying attention or are deliberately misrepresenting the issue for various personal reasons.

    That the problems which have resulted from the corrupt practices of disgraced mayor Bob Parker and his Councillor yes-men has prompted a coming-together of the left and right only illustrates how bad the issues created by Parker’s opaque cronyism really are.

    Comment by Rob — January 31, 2012 @ 2:23 pm

  38. Rob: “That the problems which have resulted from the corrupt practices of disgraced mayor Bob Parker and his Councillor yes-men has prompted a coming-together of the left and right only illustrates how bad the issues created by Parker’s opaque cronyism really are.”

    Come to think of it, if bitterly opposed camps like Occupy Wall Street and the Tea Party can actually manage to collaborate

    Comment by DeepRed — January 31, 2012 @ 3:58 pm

  39. I see Rob Fyfe is leaving Air New Zealand. Fyfe is an outlier – a New Zealand executive who is actually good at job and clearly adds value to the organisation he works for.

    I would be curious to know how many nameless and by and large incompetent CEO’s in New Zealand earn the same as him. Because I would imagine that, in an age of performance based CEO pay, he must be just about the best paid CEO in N.Z.

    Then again, who am I kidding?

    As for the gay thing – the United States is full of people who have been really mixed up by evangelical christianity and all it’s bullshit. It probably more a wonder that there are not more of these self-hating closet gays in the USA.

    Comment by Sanctuary — January 31, 2012 @ 5:10 pm

  40. There was something else this morning, in the Guardian I think (can’t find the link sorry) that suggested it wasn’t the fault of the business leaders that salaries were so high. It was the fault of the economists and academics.

    Then there’s an interesting TED talk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrkrvAUbU9Y) which presents some research that for intellectual tasks, over bigger rewards is actually counter productive.

    Comment by ben — January 31, 2012 @ 5:17 pm

  41. Andrei:And there are societies that believe farting cows are melting the North Pole – no end to the absurd things that people might believe is there?

    Who’s to say that partible paternity is absurd? You certainly aren’t .

    Comment by chiz — January 31, 2012 @ 5:33 pm

  42. There was something else this morning, in the Guardian I think (can’t find the link sorry) that suggested it wasn’t the fault of the business leaders that salaries were so high. It was the fault of the economists and academics.

    Ben I think this is the article you are referring to http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012/jan/30/excessive-pay-not-bankers-academics

    Interesting reading, thanks for the tip

    Comment by TerryB — January 31, 2012 @ 11:31 pm

  43. Fake it until you make it.

    Appearance trumps substance, you must exhibit the signs of success to make people think you are successful. This works well and continues to increase your success until your substance is over-leveraged by your apparent success.

    Comment by Angus Robertson — February 1, 2012 @ 3:34 pm

  44. …it wasn’t the fault of the business leaders that salaries were so high. It was the fault of the economists and academics.

    Thought experiment: Should Henry Ford be blamed for drive-by shootings?

    Comment by Phil — February 1, 2012 @ 4:12 pm

  45. Thought experiment: Should Henry Ford be blamed for drive-by shootings?

    Blame Newton – without his mathematics that allowed the description of ballistics and trajectory, we would still be clubbing each other to death.

    Comment by Gregor W — February 1, 2012 @ 4:31 pm

  46. > But of course as everybody should know it takes a man and a woman to conceive a child.

    You’re erudite today, Andrei. What does the research tell us about single and gay parents raising kids? I think it tells us that the kids turn out just fine.

    Comment by Ross — February 1, 2012 @ 4:38 pm


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