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	<title>Comments on: Nicely timed</title>
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	<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/nicely-timed/</link>
	<description>It is difficult not to write satire - Juvenal</description>
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		<title>By: Daniel Lang</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/nicely-timed/#comment-69379</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Daniel Lang]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2012 03:21:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=13447#comment-69379</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Clunking Fist

Only if they are also benefit recipients and fail their drug test three or more times]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clunking Fist</p>
<p>Only if they are also benefit recipients and fail their drug test three or more times</p>
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		<title>By: Clunking Fist</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/nicely-timed/#comment-69122</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clunking Fist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Aug 2012 00:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=13447#comment-69122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dan, what about a binding referendum on stoning adulterers?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, what about a binding referendum on stoning adulterers?</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/nicely-timed/#comment-68998</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 04:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Technically, in terms of the ideal response from politicians regarding this issue, it should be that New Zealand is a Christian country and therefore can not allow something that is so definitely not a part of Christian values to become law.

Unfortunately, as evidenced by one of the Labour politicians who is quite clearly gay and is now using his position as a politician to advance a possible music career, politicians aren&#039;t like that these days.  Our very own PM wouldn&#039;t support this Bill if he weren&#039;t taking cues from Barack Obama.

So I&#039;m in support of legislation being introduced that will redefine when there is a need for a Referendum to be held.  All controversial social issues (gay marriage, euthanasia, decriminalisation or legalisation of cannabis), in my view, should be put to a binding Referendum.  Democracy at its very best.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Technically, in terms of the ideal response from politicians regarding this issue, it should be that New Zealand is a Christian country and therefore can not allow something that is so definitely not a part of Christian values to become law.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, as evidenced by one of the Labour politicians who is quite clearly gay and is now using his position as a politician to advance a possible music career, politicians aren&#8217;t like that these days.  Our very own PM wouldn&#8217;t support this Bill if he weren&#8217;t taking cues from Barack Obama.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m in support of legislation being introduced that will redefine when there is a need for a Referendum to be held.  All controversial social issues (gay marriage, euthanasia, decriminalisation or legalisation of cannabis), in my view, should be put to a binding Referendum.  Democracy at its very best.</p>
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		<title>By: Clunking Fist</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/nicely-timed/#comment-68985</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Clunking Fist]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 01:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=13447#comment-68985</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tasi, while you&#039;re bravely saving the word &quot;marriage&quot;, perhaps you could save the word &quot;gay&quot; as well? And www.donkeybreedsociety.co.uk want their asses back from the Americans: they are offering &quot;fanny&quot; in return. (Could you sort out the Australian&#039;s use of the word &quot;thong&quot;, too?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tasi, while you&#8217;re bravely saving the word &#8220;marriage&#8221;, perhaps you could save the word &#8220;gay&#8221; as well? And <a href="http://www.donkeybreedsociety.co.uk" rel="nofollow">http://www.donkeybreedsociety.co.uk</a> want their asses back from the Americans: they are offering &#8220;fanny&#8221; in return. (Could you sort out the Australian&#8217;s use of the word &#8220;thong&#8221;, too?)</p>
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		<title>By: Tasi</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/nicely-timed/#comment-68982</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tasi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 00:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Andrew, and I think that&#039;s all the more reason why many Christian churches are opposing the redefinition of &quot;marriage&quot; because for Christians, the institution and the values behind it have stayed the same for them.

(I personally don&#039;t have a problem with same-sex &quot;marriages&quot;, but understand why my fellow bretheren do.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, and I think that&#8217;s all the more reason why many Christian churches are opposing the redefinition of &#8220;marriage&#8221; because for Christians, the institution and the values behind it have stayed the same for them.</p>
<p>(I personally don&#8217;t have a problem with same-sex &#8220;marriages&#8221;, but understand why my fellow bretheren do.)</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Geddis</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/nicely-timed/#comment-68978</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Geddis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Aug 2012 00:24:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Tasi,

No real problem with that here ... but I think you&#039;ll find the horse has long ago bolted on the use of the term &quot;marriage&quot;, in that a large majority of NZers see the institution in purely civil terms. So any attempt to &quot;reclaim&quot; it for the churches is, I think, doomed to failure. 

But, as I say, I have no principled problem with what you suggest.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tasi,</p>
<p>No real problem with that here &#8230; but I think you&#8217;ll find the horse has long ago bolted on the use of the term &#8220;marriage&#8221;, in that a large majority of NZers see the institution in purely civil terms. So any attempt to &#8220;reclaim&#8221; it for the churches is, I think, doomed to failure. </p>
<p>But, as I say, I have no principled problem with what you suggest.</p>
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		<title>By: Tasi</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/nicely-timed/#comment-68974</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tasi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 23:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=13447#comment-68974</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ Andrew, that&#039;s why the State should get out of regulating marriage.  

In that way, everyone, Christian: Mormon, Catholic, same-sex, atheists, can all go and register their union with the State, and then perform whatever ceremony they want afterwards.

Christians can have Christian marriage ceremonies according to their own beliefs, and atheists can go to the marae according to their own beliefs.

But because the State regulates marriage, it IS/WILL/CAN redefine marriage for ALL citizens, against what some groups may believe in.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Andrew, that&#8217;s why the State should get out of regulating marriage.  </p>
<p>In that way, everyone, Christian: Mormon, Catholic, same-sex, atheists, can all go and register their union with the State, and then perform whatever ceremony they want afterwards.</p>
<p>Christians can have Christian marriage ceremonies according to their own beliefs, and atheists can go to the marae according to their own beliefs.</p>
<p>But because the State regulates marriage, it IS/WILL/CAN redefine marriage for ALL citizens, against what some groups may believe in.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Geddis</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/nicely-timed/#comment-68959</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew Geddis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 22:48:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=13447#comment-68959</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tasi: &quot;It should be Christians who define their own institutions, not the State.&quot;

But marriage is NOT a Christian institution anymore. I married my wife in a registry office in front of a court official with nary a mention of God, then had a redo on a Marae in front of family and friends with my sister acting as &quot;celebrant&quot;. As we&#039;re both atheists, it would be extremely silly to say we&#039;ve entered a  Whatever historical connection marriage once may have had with the Church (a connection that has never been particularly strong in NZ), it has long since been broken. So you don&#039;t get a veto over this issue - sorry.

Further, exactly which &quot;Christians&quot; get to say what marriage is - the Anglicans (who may be about to allow gay unions to take place)? The Catholics (in which case, no gay marriage ... but no divorce for anyone either)? The Mormons (no gay marriage ... but guys get lots of wives!)?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tasi: &#8220;It should be Christians who define their own institutions, not the State.&#8221;</p>
<p>But marriage is NOT a Christian institution anymore. I married my wife in a registry office in front of a court official with nary a mention of God, then had a redo on a Marae in front of family and friends with my sister acting as &#8220;celebrant&#8221;. As we&#8217;re both atheists, it would be extremely silly to say we&#8217;ve entered a  Whatever historical connection marriage once may have had with the Church (a connection that has never been particularly strong in NZ), it has long since been broken. So you don&#8217;t get a veto over this issue &#8211; sorry.</p>
<p>Further, exactly which &#8220;Christians&#8221; get to say what marriage is &#8211; the Anglicans (who may be about to allow gay unions to take place)? The Catholics (in which case, no gay marriage &#8230; but no divorce for anyone either)? The Mormons (no gay marriage &#8230; but guys get lots of wives!)?</p>
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		<title>By: Gregor W</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/nicely-timed/#comment-68952</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gregor W]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 21:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[@bob

&lt;i&gt;you agree the Greens were ‘sluggish’ (ie last movers) on GST off veges &amp; fruit, because they believe in the purity &amp; power of the free market.&lt;/i&gt;

No. I agree that the GP were rightly skeptical because the proposition is stupid. 
Bananas that cost $1/kilo with GST one day will cost $1/kilo without GST the next. It&#039;s got to do with the reality of the free market not &quot;belief in it&#039;s purity&quot;.
The alternative is price controls on goods + services - something that might have it&#039;s own merits under certain conditions but not anything that was proposed.

The GP had actually proposed a sensible alternative in 2010 (a Supermarket code of Conduct) which would have looked at both current duopoly&#039;s gouging at both the supply and consumption ends of the chain.

&lt;i&gt;And while Bradford pushed a minimum wage rise through, with union backing, it spoke volumes of how long that took,...&lt;/i&gt;

Firstly, are you saying that the GP calling for minimum wage legislation was prompted only by union agitation?
Secondly, given that it&#039;s been policy for at least 5-6 years, how exactly are the GP (who haven&#039;t been in government lets and don&#039;t have a commanding number of seats ) &quot;taken too long&quot;, particularly given that the party of the unions over their tenure did bugger when they were in Govt?

For whatever reason, I think you&#039;ve set your sights on the wrong target, bob.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@bob</p>
<p><i>you agree the Greens were ‘sluggish’ (ie last movers) on GST off veges &amp; fruit, because they believe in the purity &amp; power of the free market.</i></p>
<p>No. I agree that the GP were rightly skeptical because the proposition is stupid.<br />
Bananas that cost $1/kilo with GST one day will cost $1/kilo without GST the next. It&#8217;s got to do with the reality of the free market not &#8220;belief in it&#8217;s purity&#8221;.<br />
The alternative is price controls on goods + services &#8211; something that might have it&#8217;s own merits under certain conditions but not anything that was proposed.</p>
<p>The GP had actually proposed a sensible alternative in 2010 (a Supermarket code of Conduct) which would have looked at both current duopoly&#8217;s gouging at both the supply and consumption ends of the chain.</p>
<p><i>And while Bradford pushed a minimum wage rise through, with union backing, it spoke volumes of how long that took,&#8230;</i></p>
<p>Firstly, are you saying that the GP calling for minimum wage legislation was prompted only by union agitation?<br />
Secondly, given that it&#8217;s been policy for at least 5-6 years, how exactly are the GP (who haven&#8217;t been in government lets and don&#8217;t have a commanding number of seats ) &#8220;taken too long&#8221;, particularly given that the party of the unions over their tenure did bugger when they were in Govt?</p>
<p>For whatever reason, I think you&#8217;ve set your sights on the wrong target, bob.</p>
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		<title>By: Tasi</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/nicely-timed/#comment-68950</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tasi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Aug 2012 21:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[As a Pacific Island Christian, I believe hetro-sexual and same-sex couples should have the same rights under the law of a secular government.  But modern day NZ marriage is based on the Christian institution of marriage (otherwise why would the Courts have ruled the 1977 law makers did not intend for marriage to include same-sex couples).  It should be Christians who define their own institutions, not the State.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Pacific Island Christian, I believe hetro-sexual and same-sex couples should have the same rights under the law of a secular government.  But modern day NZ marriage is based on the Christian institution of marriage (otherwise why would the Courts have ruled the 1977 law makers did not intend for marriage to include same-sex couples).  It should be Christians who define their own institutions, not the State.</p>
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