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	<title>Comments on: The worst crime imaginable</title>
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	<description>It is difficult not to write satire - Juvenal</description>
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		<title>By: NeilM</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/the-worst-crime-imaginable/#comment-79263</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NeilM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=13991#comment-79263</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@PB

&lt;i&gt;I’ve always found it odd that David would kill evryone bar his father, leave the house to do his usual paper round, and then return trusting that his father wouldn’t have heard the gunshots and come into the house a few minutes earlier than usual. &lt;/i&gt;

The father had a set routine every morning and the gun had a silencer. Robin got up at a set time to go to work, came inside and knelt to pray just beside the curtains every morning.

So, according to the prosecution, Bain shot the family, did the paper round to establish an alibi, getting back just before the father normally gets into the house. 

That could possibly be untrue but for Binnie to claim it is untrue the basis that David kept to his usual schedule is just bizarre.

And according to the prosecution it all unravelled because the killer got into an unexpected fight with Steven, thereby throwing the plan into some chaos. Lost gloves, blood on clothes etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@PB</p>
<p><i>I’ve always found it odd that David would kill evryone bar his father, leave the house to do his usual paper round, and then return trusting that his father wouldn’t have heard the gunshots and come into the house a few minutes earlier than usual. </i></p>
<p>The father had a set routine every morning and the gun had a silencer. Robin got up at a set time to go to work, came inside and knelt to pray just beside the curtains every morning.</p>
<p>So, according to the prosecution, Bain shot the family, did the paper round to establish an alibi, getting back just before the father normally gets into the house. </p>
<p>That could possibly be untrue but for Binnie to claim it is untrue the basis that David kept to his usual schedule is just bizarre.</p>
<p>And according to the prosecution it all unravelled because the killer got into an unexpected fight with Steven, thereby throwing the plan into some chaos. Lost gloves, blood on clothes etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Keir</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/the-worst-crime-imaginable/#comment-79262</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Keir]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[(Guys, if we&#039;re going to be pretentious tossers then the J follows the name: Binnie J.)

The Crown has in fact waged an anti-Bain campaign for the past two decades. It&#039;s why all the cases are R v Bain or Bain v R.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Guys, if we&#8217;re going to be pretentious tossers then the J follows the name: Binnie J.)</p>
<p>The Crown has in fact waged an anti-Bain campaign for the past two decades. It&#8217;s why all the cases are R v Bain or Bain v R.</p>
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		<title>By: bob</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/the-worst-crime-imaginable/#comment-79257</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bob]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 10:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=13991#comment-79257</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@ pascal&#039;s bookie - sorry, forgot to mention that - yes, the cops stuffed up on several counts. They seem to do that a lot on major trials (Bain, Scott Watson, Ewen MacDonald, Urewera 17, etc), but that doesn&#039;t mean David Bain was innocent, or even &#039;not guilty&#039; beyond reasonable doubt.

And as a leftie, Roger is correct in saying I find it objectionable when folks like Andrew R assume we should all &#039;fall into line&#039; and assume David is innocent. I read the Privy council&#039;s findings, and could see where Karam was coming from, and how it could be argued they knocked out a lot of the crown evidence. But that still left a lot of evidence pointing straight at David. Which is what ODT journo Martin van Beynen said, and he did sit through the whole trial.

And picking up what NeilM said in #22 - whoever killed the family DID change out of David&#039;s clothing which they were wearing, and tried washing it in the machine downstairs. But David still had some bloodstains on what he was wearing when found by cops. Question is - why would Robin wear David&#039;s clothes to kill everyone, if not to incriminate David? Given that, why then change out of David&#039;s clothes and try wash the blood away after killing the rest?

Oh, and it seems J Fisher is implying J Binnie thought he was getting a well paid holiday in the South Pacific. Then panicked when he realised his report was a duffer on a highly controversial case, and he had been hornswaggled by Joe Karam&#039;s superb spin.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ pascal&#8217;s bookie &#8211; sorry, forgot to mention that &#8211; yes, the cops stuffed up on several counts. They seem to do that a lot on major trials (Bain, Scott Watson, Ewen MacDonald, Urewera 17, etc), but that doesn&#8217;t mean David Bain was innocent, or even &#8216;not guilty&#8217; beyond reasonable doubt.</p>
<p>And as a leftie, Roger is correct in saying I find it objectionable when folks like Andrew R assume we should all &#8216;fall into line&#8217; and assume David is innocent. I read the Privy council&#8217;s findings, and could see where Karam was coming from, and how it could be argued they knocked out a lot of the crown evidence. But that still left a lot of evidence pointing straight at David. Which is what ODT journo Martin van Beynen said, and he did sit through the whole trial.</p>
<p>And picking up what NeilM said in #22 &#8211; whoever killed the family DID change out of David&#8217;s clothing which they were wearing, and tried washing it in the machine downstairs. But David still had some bloodstains on what he was wearing when found by cops. Question is &#8211; why would Robin wear David&#8217;s clothes to kill everyone, if not to incriminate David? Given that, why then change out of David&#8217;s clothes and try wash the blood away after killing the rest?</p>
<p>Oh, and it seems J Fisher is implying J Binnie thought he was getting a well paid holiday in the South Pacific. Then panicked when he realised his report was a duffer on a highly controversial case, and he had been hornswaggled by Joe Karam&#8217;s superb spin.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew R</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/the-worst-crime-imaginable/#comment-79248</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew R]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 08:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=13991#comment-79248</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Collins abused her position of power by slagging off a report writer while keeping the report secret and trying to gag the report writer.  Cowardly bullying behaviour is nothing new from her. (Bullying=cowardly in my book.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Collins abused her position of power by slagging off a report writer while keeping the report secret and trying to gag the report writer.  Cowardly bullying behaviour is nothing new from her. (Bullying=cowardly in my book.)</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/the-worst-crime-imaginable/#comment-79236</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Roger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 05:37:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=13991#comment-79236</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why might Collins be cowardly? There doesn&#039;t seem to be any political advantage to be gained in what she is doing unless you believe that left wingers are inherently Bain supporters and those who think he is guilty are right wingers. I find that implausible and, I suspect, left wingers particularly might find it objectionable! Nor is Collins an automatic defender of bureaucrats like the cops or Crown Law, as the Dept of Corrections discovered when she first became a Minister. Binnie seems to have delivered a report that just couldnt be waved through whatever his conclusions might be because the way he reached these conclusions, as Fisher argued, was unsound. As he states, all criminal investigations include cock ups. It doesn&#039;t follow that all are fatally flawed or amount to wilful misconduct .]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why might Collins be cowardly? There doesn&#8217;t seem to be any political advantage to be gained in what she is doing unless you believe that left wingers are inherently Bain supporters and those who think he is guilty are right wingers. I find that implausible and, I suspect, left wingers particularly might find it objectionable! Nor is Collins an automatic defender of bureaucrats like the cops or Crown Law, as the Dept of Corrections discovered when she first became a Minister. Binnie seems to have delivered a report that just couldnt be waved through whatever his conclusions might be because the way he reached these conclusions, as Fisher argued, was unsound. As he states, all criminal investigations include cock ups. It doesn&#8217;t follow that all are fatally flawed or amount to wilful misconduct .</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew R</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/the-worst-crime-imaginable/#comment-79232</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew R]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 05:14:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=13991#comment-79232</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[FFS, Bain was acquitted after a trial, I doubt that any of the experts on this forum heard all the evidence; you weren&#039;t there, you don&#039;t know, move on.

Binnie wrote a report, the answer wasn&#039;t liked, so that cowardly Collins attacked it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FFS, Bain was acquitted after a trial, I doubt that any of the experts on this forum heard all the evidence; you weren&#8217;t there, you don&#8217;t know, move on.</p>
<p>Binnie wrote a report, the answer wasn&#8217;t liked, so that cowardly Collins attacked it.</p>
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		<title>By: Pascal's bookie</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/the-worst-crime-imaginable/#comment-79231</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pascal's bookie]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 04:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=13991#comment-79231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s a different point Neil. I&#039;ve always found it odd that David would kill evryone bar his father, leave the house to do his usual paper round, and then return trusting that his father wouldn&#039;t have heard the gunshots and come into the house a few minutes earlier than usual. I don&#039;t have an opinion either way on who did it, but that does seem like a surreal scenario.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a different point Neil. I&#8217;ve always found it odd that David would kill evryone bar his father, leave the house to do his usual paper round, and then return trusting that his father wouldn&#8217;t have heard the gunshots and come into the house a few minutes earlier than usual. I don&#8217;t have an opinion either way on who did it, but that does seem like a surreal scenario.</p>
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		<title>By: NeilM</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/the-worst-crime-imaginable/#comment-79230</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NeilM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 04:10:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=13991#comment-79230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[From Binnie&#039;s response;

&lt;i&gt;David Bain&#039;s version of what he did on the morning of June 20 was inherently likely because it conformed to a long standing paper route routine to which there were independent witnesses. The Crown&#039;s alternative theory that he left the house unattended for over an hour with Robin due to walk in anytime was not. The fact he didn&#039;t change his bloody clothes was inherently unlikely &quot;subsequent behaviour&quot; if he was guilty.&lt;/i&gt;

There&#039;s a fair amount odd here but what stands out for me is his claim as &quot;fact&quot; that he didn&#039;t change his clothes.

Surely this can only be a deduction. There was blood on some of his clothes therefore none of the clothes were changed.

The alternative deduction Is that he didn&#039;t change all his clothes - just the items with obvious blood. What was found were just small smudges.

And the reasoning that David Bain&#039;s version of events was more likely because he stuck to his usual paper round routine completely misses the point.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Binnie&#8217;s response;</p>
<p><i>David Bain&#8217;s version of what he did on the morning of June 20 was inherently likely because it conformed to a long standing paper route routine to which there were independent witnesses. The Crown&#8217;s alternative theory that he left the house unattended for over an hour with Robin due to walk in anytime was not. The fact he didn&#8217;t change his bloody clothes was inherently unlikely &#8220;subsequent behaviour&#8221; if he was guilty.</i></p>
<p>There&#8217;s a fair amount odd here but what stands out for me is his claim as &#8220;fact&#8221; that he didn&#8217;t change his clothes.</p>
<p>Surely this can only be a deduction. There was blood on some of his clothes therefore none of the clothes were changed.</p>
<p>The alternative deduction Is that he didn&#8217;t change all his clothes &#8211; just the items with obvious blood. What was found were just small smudges.</p>
<p>And the reasoning that David Bain&#8217;s version of events was more likely because he stuck to his usual paper round routine completely misses the point.</p>
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		<title>By: insider</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/the-worst-crime-imaginable/#comment-79229</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[insider]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 03:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=13991#comment-79229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well the reports are in and &#039;channeling karam&#039; appears on the button. Campaigning judge looks to score an international point.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well the reports are in and &#8216;channeling karam&#8217; appears on the button. Campaigning judge looks to score an international point.</p>
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		<title>By: NeilM</title>
		<link>http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2012/12/13/the-worst-crime-imaginable/#comment-79228</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[NeilM]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2012 02:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dimpost.wordpress.com/?p=13991#comment-79228</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not sure if Collins will convince people with her account of flaws but I&#039;m surprised that by ignoring all the evidence against David Bain and believing everything he said Binnie could only find him innocent on the balance of probabilities.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure if Collins will convince people with her account of flaws but I&#8217;m surprised that by ignoring all the evidence against David Bain and believing everything he said Binnie could only find him innocent on the balance of probabilities.</p>
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