The Dim-Post

November 27, 2013

Various points that I’m too lazy to blog about separately

Filed under: general idiocy — danylmc @ 3:05 pm
  1. Colin Craig: I think National’s position here is that they have to give him a seat. It’s going to be a tight election, the Conservative Party won 2.65% of the vote in 2011, there’s no reason that won’t go down, and it will probably go up. At least some of those votes will come from National. If Craig doesn’t win an electorate but fails to reach the 5% threshold then somewhere between 60,000 to 100,000 right-wing votes don’t get counted.
  2. Russel Norman is facing a leadership challenge from a Green Party list candidate! Many people who go into politics have leadership aspirations, but the trick is to convince other people that you’d make an astute leader. And challenging an incumbent the term after he’s co-lead the party to an historic electoral victory when you’re in a position of near-total obscurity is not a great way to demonstrate your political acumen.
  3. It was the 50th Anniversary of the JFK assassination. Not sure if I’ve linked to it before, but my favorite short film about the assassination is Umbrella Man by Errol Morris. Favorite books: Libra and American Tabloid. Favorite feature movie is, naturally, Stone’s JFK. Many people struggle with the historiography; you need to look past that and just enjoy it as a masterpiece of paranoia. Consider the writing, performances and editing in this scene. My personal conspiracy theory? Kennedy was murdered by a small group of nutcases who were contracted to the CIA as part of their ongoing clandestine war against Cuba. The agency engaged in a cover-up after the assassination, for obvious reasons.
  4. Should we drill for oil? Putting global-warming aside for a minute: if we were like Norway, and had a safe, well-regulated industry in which the profits went to the people of New Zealand then yeah, totally we should drill for oil. Sadly we’re not like Norway. We’re New Zealand! Regulation will be negligible, catastrophes are likely, profits will all go overseas. Combine that with the fact that extracting and burning that oil will contribute to the alteration of the atmosphere of the planet we live on and there’s not a lot in it for people who aren’t in the energy industry.
  5. A theory I’d like to throw out there to explain National’s eagerness for partial-privatization and weird obsession with ‘Mum and Dad investors’. One of the goals of right-wing political parties for the last thirty years has been the idea of an ‘ownership society’. The theory is that you extend the ownership of capital to the middle-class and the experience of earning dividends and capital gains through shares, bonds etc turns them all into fervent free-market right-wing voters. There were other reasons for the sales – they got to give huge sums of taxpayer money away to the finance sector! –  but I suspect National is bitterly disappointed that it hasn’t changed the political landscape by moving us towards an ‘ownership society’.
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56 Comments »

  1. Wow, potential 100,000 voters are going to vote for the “crazy” party. If the Conservatives continue to grow at that rate, soon we might have to ask just “who are the real crazies?”

    Comment by Redbaiter — November 27, 2013 @ 3:15 pm

  2. Dunno if replacing the Slavery flag for the Eureka Flag is much of an improvement – no fighting for slavery involved, sure, but Eureka Stockade farce was one of the most unthreatening revolts ever…

    Comment by Leopold — November 27, 2013 @ 3:48 pm

  3. the Conservative Party won 2.65% of the vote in 2011, there’s no reason that won’t go down, and it will probably go up. At least some of those votes will come from National.

    The Conservatives are basically a fresh-looking NZF. Most of the votes they pick up should come from Winston. The electoral math gets really interesting if both parties reach, say, 4%. Add in the other parties that fail to reach the MMP threshold and you could end up with National governing alone by polling in the low-to-mid 40’s.

    Comment by Phil — November 27, 2013 @ 4:25 pm

  4. 1. Among other things, the Colin Craig gambit, if it exists, is just playing with Winston’s already healthy paranoia. If it was real they’d be polling on that scenario in the electorate of choice (and nationally) to see it enough voters would support him and how many other voters they might lose nationally if they tried to throw the election his way.
    2. The real grounds for objecting to Russel as leader is having been a member of the Australian replacement for Communist Party while under the age of 80. Over that age you get a conditional pass, under and there’s a definite problem with your political IQ.
    3. JFK – good movie until the bit where Jim Garrison gets up and tries to string together the conspiracy argument – and realises he has no cards in his deck. I would struggle with Lee Harvey Oswald (ex Marine defector to the USSR, strong leftist and all around all American fuck up) as part of any CIA plot
    4. Who says we don’t make money off the oil industry we have now? There’s plenty of evidence we do, from (non BERL) reports on the subject to have you been to New Plymouth/Taranaki lately where black milk and white milk (or white oil and black oil) have combined to make it considerably more prosperous. If you want a state owned oil company to take all the drilling risk on $100m deep sea wells go for it as a political platform.
    5. The savings of Mums and Dads are already major players in our stock market through pension/super funds, including the Cullen Fund.

    Comment by Tinakori — November 27, 2013 @ 4:36 pm

  5. David Hay is likely using the leadership challenge to get himself a more winnable lisk ranking. With the new exposure he gets, plus the Auckland membership dog-whistle, he actually might get a better rank.

    Comment by Auto_Immune — November 27, 2013 @ 4:43 pm

  6. David Hay said he’ll only for leader if he gets a top four list placing. Making a nuisance of yourself by trying to roll the leader is not going to endear himself to the Green members who select the list, I think – so he’s very unlikely to move up 12 places over all the existing MPs, who have been doing an excellent job.

    Also, if the Nats try and give Craig a nod and a wink, the Greens and Labour should quietly not nominate candidates in the chosen electorate.

    Comment by richdrich — November 27, 2013 @ 4:57 pm

  7. “historic electoral victory”

    What was that one?

    Comment by Swan — November 27, 2013 @ 5:06 pm

  8. ” catastrophes are likely,”

    I simply can’t believe you are stupid enough to think that catastrophes (by any reasonable definition) are likely (by any reasonable definition. Or did you actually believe Cunliffes ridiculous 70% spin?

    Comment by Swan — November 27, 2013 @ 5:15 pm

  9. “burning that oil will contribute to the alteration of the atmosphere of the planet we live on and there’s not a lot in it for people who aren’t in the energy industry.”

    Agreed. Not a lot in it for people who aren’t in the energy industry. Or vehicle users. Not a lot in it for anyone other than those groups. Or consumers. Apart from those groups not a lot in it for anyone.

    Comment by Swan — November 27, 2013 @ 5:19 pm

  10. The most tiring thing about the Conservative Party is the way half educated Progressives, so blinkered and one dimensional in their political perspectives, write thousands of words about it when they really do not have a clue what real Conservatism actually is.

    BTW, for the off topic commenter Leopold, I changed my avatar not because of any concerns with Prog allegations that it represents slavery, but because on Twitter it suggests (to many of my overseas followers) a location that isn’t correct.

    Comment by Redbaiter — November 27, 2013 @ 5:39 pm

  11. >Or vehicle users. Not a lot in it for anyone other than those groups. Or consumers. Apart from those groups not a lot in it for anyone.

    Just as with our milk, NZ oil will be sold to NZers for no discount whatsoever. So yeah, consumers won’t see any improvement from NZ producing oil.

    >but I suspect National is bitterly disappointed that it hasn’t changed the political landscape by moving us towards an ‘ownership society’.

    Yes, instead, the average Kiwi now owns slightly less assets.

    Comment by Ben Wilson — November 27, 2013 @ 6:50 pm

  12. “Just as with our milk, NZ oil will be sold to NZers for no discount whatsoever. So yeah, consumers won’t see any improvement from NZ producing oil.”

    Aha. So it established that any NZ production of oil will not be enough to shift the global supply curve and hence the price. In which case, how is it going to have any effect on CO2 levels in the atmosphere? Answer: it’s not.

    Comment by Swan — November 27, 2013 @ 7:01 pm

  13. Kennedy was murdered by a small group of nutcases who were contracted to the CIA as part of their ongoing clandestine war against Cuba.

    Because JFK had so blatantly failed to oppose Castro.

    I think it was more like how some people when faced with a cliff can’t help but think about jumping.

    Oswald had a rifle, had gun experience, had recently tried to shoot someone and then he learns the president’s motorcade will be travelling right passed his work which just happens to have the best vantage point – JFK would be moving directly away from him.

    Combine that with an obsessive, antisocial and attention seeking personality and it was bound to lead to trouble.

    Comment by NeilM — November 27, 2013 @ 7:16 pm

  14. > how is it going to have any effect on CO2 levels in the atmosphere? Answer:

    ..nearly every ton of carbon extracted as oil will end up in the atmosphere. Each ton will have pretty much exactly the same effect as a ton from anywhere else. That’s “contributing”.

    Comment by Ben Wilson — November 27, 2013 @ 7:17 pm

  15. “..nearly every ton of carbon extracted as oil will end up in the atmosphere. Each ton will have pretty much exactly the same effect as a ton from anywhere else. That’s “contributing”.”

    And every increase in supply will benefit consumers.

    Comment by Swan — November 27, 2013 @ 7:21 pm

  16. I would struggle with Lee Harvey Oswald (ex Marine defector to the USSR, strong leftist and all around all American fuck up) as part of any CIA plot

    I think that a huge part of the obsession and conspiracy theories around the Kennedy assassination stem from the fact that Oswald’s life is really, really mysterious. He was a Marxist who defected to the Soviet Union. But once he returned to the US all of his friends and associates seemed to be far-right anti-communists with ties to the US intelligence industry. Which is pretty weird.

    The savings of Mums and Dads are already major players in our stock market through pension/super funds, including the Cullen Fund.

    Yeah, but I’m not seeing my investments in KiwiSaver or the University super-scheme pay for my holidays, or a new car. I don’t even know what companies I’m invested in. Actually owned a portfolio and seeing political decisions that might increase or decrease market value is very different.

    Comment by danylmc — November 27, 2013 @ 7:22 pm

  17. Oswald’s life is really, really mysterious.

    It wasn’t mysterious. It was the classic life of a narcissist who thought they should be important.

    And like Chapman chose to do that by killing someone famous.

    Comment by NeilM — November 27, 2013 @ 7:37 pm

  18. “He was a Marxist who defected to the Soviet Union. But once he returned to the US all of his friends and associates seemed to be far-right anti-communists with ties to the US intelligence industry. ”

    My theory coincides with that remark. Oswald was a leftist who went to Russia and learnt the truth that turned him against communism. He returned to the US and was used by right wing Kennedy opponents to carry out the assassination.

    What makes me think this? Oswald did odd things prior to the shooting to make it look as if he was connected with far left Cuban groups. Posing with the actual rifle used in the assassination and some pro Castro leaflets. Weird I reckon. Why would anyone take such a picture, except maybe to put people off the track.

    Trying to shoot a far right winger, but failed when he pulled off the much more difficult job of shooting Kennedy. Oswald was a good shot from his Marine days. Another trick designed to deflect from his real motivations?

    Oswald claimed he was a patsy when arrested. I think he was. The attempt to paint him as a left winger was false flag. Designed to cover up the identity of his real backers.

    Comment by Redbaiter — November 27, 2013 @ 8:01 pm

  19. I rest my case.

    Comment by NeilM — November 27, 2013 @ 8:03 pm

  20. The ‘ownership society’ is something most Tories genuinely believe in, but they tend to think ‘well, I and everyone I know has investments, so I guess we’re already there, right?’. The groups that are unable to invest are usually the ones Tories are most involved with trying to limit opportunities for, so they can’t follow through on their convictions.

    The ‘mum and dad investors’ thing isn’t really part of this, though, it’s just a cynical bit of marketing to try and convince people the profits from asset sales will go to people like them.

    Comment by kalvarnsen — November 27, 2013 @ 8:44 pm

  21. It wasn’t mysterious. It was the classic life of a narcissist who thought they should be important.

    One of the mostly-accurate scenes in JFK illustrates how odd Oswald’s life was. He operated his pro-Cuban organisation (of which he was the sole member) out of the same office as a former FBI guy who was running guns into Cuba to overthrow Castro. That is pretty mysterious. According to Wikipedia the CIA has over a thousand documents on Oswald that they refuse to declassify or make available to the various Senate investigations into the assassination. They’re hiding something.

    Comment by danylmc — November 27, 2013 @ 8:47 pm

  22. “According to Wikipedia… they’re hiding something.”

    Presented without comment.

    Comment by kalvarnsen — November 27, 2013 @ 8:50 pm

  23. I can still remember the year I went to camp
    Heard about some lady named Selma and some blacks
    Somebody put their finger in the President’s ear
    Wasn’t too much later they invented Johnson’s Wax
    I remember the book depository where they crowned the king of Cuba
    That’s all I remember but I’m sure there’s something else
    Way down inside me I can feel it coming back…

    Purple Toupee, They Might Be Giants

    Comment by Joe W — November 27, 2013 @ 9:41 pm

  24. Maybe it is now clear why Greens would not let Mathers stand for Christchurch East. If she had stood and been elected then there would have been a list vacancy. Allowing for Shaw not wanting to come back from UK for less than a year then the next person on Green List is aspiring leader Hay.maybe the party was aware what he was up to and neatly blocked him.
    Wonder if he is any relationship to Keith Hay. Nah unlikely I guess

    Comment by Ron — November 27, 2013 @ 9:41 pm

  25. He operated his pro-Cuban organisation (of which he was the sole member)…

    You’re, right there’s plenty of material to feed theories but he kept on falling out with everyone and there’s no sense of any political commitment.

    Comment by NeilM — November 27, 2013 @ 9:51 pm

  26. - but I suspect National is bitterly disappointed that it hasn’t changed the political landscape by moving us towards an ‘ownership society’

    I suspect the move was more about breaking the taboo against economic reform that was considered to hold sway in NZ since the ’90s. I don’t know whether they succeeded, but I doubt anyone expected the opposition to make such a big deal out of it.

    Comment by Swan — November 27, 2013 @ 10:19 pm

  27. “My personal conspiracy theory? Kennedy was murdered by a small group of nutcases who were contracted to the CIA as part of their ongoing clandestine war against Cuba.”

    Don’t you mean James Ellroy’s Theory?

    Comment by Exclamation Mark — November 28, 2013 @ 8:28 am

  28. If you prefer alternate history, I highly recommend 11-22-63 by Stephen King.

    Comment by Ash — November 28, 2013 @ 8:37 am

  29. Don’t you mean James Ellroy’s Theory?

    It’s been a long time since I read that book, but I’m pretty sure Hoover was behind the assassination in American Tabloid.

    If you prefer alternate history, I highly recommend 11-22-63 by Stephen King.

    Too meandering and long and self-indulgent.

    Comment by danylmc — November 28, 2013 @ 9:09 am

  30. I thought that of The Luminaries. Different strokes.

    Comment by Ash — November 28, 2013 @ 10:56 am

  31. @Ash: Ah, but Stephen King doesn’t offer a refreshing insight into the true meaning of our identity as a multicultural society.

    Comment by Hugh — November 28, 2013 @ 10:57 am

  32. “but I doubt anyone expected the opposition to make such a big deal out of it.”

    considering that A) NZers generally arent that keen on privitisations ever since we were rodgered in the 80s and B) they are the opposition, i find that view a bit odd. Unless ive put the wrong meaning on things here

    Comment by framu — November 28, 2013 @ 11:57 am

  33. It’s going to be a tight election, the Conservative Party won 2.65% of the vote in 2011, there’s no reason that won’t go down, and it will probably go up.

    I’m really interested to know the role of Colin Craig’s money, and his spending last election, in all of this. Maybe it’ll be more apparent after 2014.

    Most promising political parties under MMP have reached where they are because they have a core base of supporters who strongly agree with some concept during that party’s formation (or afterwards), to the extent that it could rely on a reasonable support of voters during an election. Even the ACT party began with strong fiscal policies, which attracted a core of supporters, until the founders eventually discovered that fewer and fewer voters would actually support the party’s ideals, and so they sold out to the likes of David Garrett (for the locking people away forever vote), Don Brash (for the race-baiting redneck vote), and various other stuff which had nothing to do with its founding fiscal policy ideals. Now, the ACT Party’s remains are being usurped by crazy extremist nutcase groups, because when you don’t have that core base of supporters, there’s a higher chance of getting into Parliament by hijacking the corpse of the ACT Party which is that’s already in parliament, and which already has a (probably deluded) support base voting for it for who-knows-what reason, than it is to start from scratch with almost no supporters and highly risk falling into obscurity.

    Arguably the Conservative Party has avoided obscurity not through having a strong fundamental support base which agrees with its ideals, or even knows what they are, but by spending $1.88 million of mostly Colin Craig’s money last election, splashing Colin Craig’s face everywhere. If you’re starting as virtually unknown, then maybe that’s an alternative way (than kicking around the ACT Party’s corpse) to get popular enough to remain known, and possibly make it into parliament. And now it’s sunning itself a little under the media spotlight, so it’ll be interesting to see how long it lasts if the spending slows down, or how much spending is needed to improve its support from here.

    Comment by izogi — November 28, 2013 @ 12:46 pm

  34. I’m not a fan of Don Brash or the ACT Party, but after reading The Hollow Men I was under the impression that he was kinda encouraged into the race-baiting by his media advisors. That “one law for all” slogan that was used also has libertarian appeal which probably helped him accept it as a platform.. he’s not a racist after all, his (ex)wife is from Singapore.

    From what I can tell Brash is/was a pretty good ideological-fit for what ACT originally stood for (laissez faire, small govt, yadayada). He’s certainly a better fit than John Banks.

    Comment by Rob — November 28, 2013 @ 1:57 pm

  35. “…there’s not a lot in it for people who aren’t in the energy industry.”

    Yeah, not quite. Oil and gas provides more than 5,000 FTE jobs in Taranaki and $2 billion in annual GDP, and was the driver behind the development of a large engineering industry in the region which takes national and international contracts. Also…

    After a flat nine months, Taranaki’s economy has rebounded to be the country’s most vibrant.
    The ANZ Bank regional trends quarterly survey shows section sales are up 43 per cent, house sales up 9 per cent and business confidence is the highest in New Zealand, all in the last three months.
    Across the whole year the numbers aren’t so rosy with the economy growing just 2.6 per cent to be the third most sluggish region in the country. But in the September quarter, Taranaki surged ahead of everyone else thanks in part to a massive expansion in onshore and offshore oil exploration.
    TARANAKI DAILY NEWS — 22 NOV 2013

    Comment by Ataahua — November 28, 2013 @ 3:10 pm

  36. @Izogi – Interestingly the Conservative Party is probably the only party that managed to advance their brand during the local body elections, particularly in Auckland and particularly particularly in the Upper Harbour/East Coast Bays area. I don’t see them getting to 5%, but I can see them approaching a critical mass in one or two electorates, enough to allow the Nats to credibly hand one of them over, a la Labour in the Coromandel electorate of 1999. So while Craig’s money has put them in contention, what has kept them has been hard campaigning, mostly of a local, non media oriented fashion. Whether or not that will stand the scrutiny of a general election campaign, only time will tell.

    Hopefully not though. Bunch of fruitcakes.

    Comment by alex — November 28, 2013 @ 4:57 pm

  37. “I’m not a fan of Don Brash or the ACT Party, but after reading The Hollow Men I was under the impression that he was kinda encouraged into the race-baiting by his media advisors”

    Brash appeared on The Vote this year, on the episode about New Zealand becoming a racist country and reiterated his backwards views on race relations, so I think he personally believes them as well.

    Comment by Matthew — November 28, 2013 @ 5:06 pm

  38. “We’re New Zealand”.

    See that’s the issue. The Greens dont want to make us like Norway, they want to make us a feudal horsedrawn shit-warmed malnourished bad-toothed society.

    If they wanted to make us like Norway, fuck even I’d vote for them.

    Comment by grant — November 28, 2013 @ 8:32 pm

  39. Grant. Amen brother

    Comment by Tinakori — November 28, 2013 @ 8:37 pm

  40. Maybe you want to check what feudalism means, grant.

    Comment by Gregor W — November 28, 2013 @ 8:45 pm

  41. The JFK conspiracy theories got a big knock-back when the tapes that purported to record a second shot from the “grassy knoll” were analysed using modern acoustic analysis methods – in other words, good old-fashioned physics with better equipment. Single shooter, single direction.

    Comment by David in Chch — November 28, 2013 @ 8:54 pm

  42. “It’s going to be a tight election, the Conservative Party won 2.65% of the vote in 2011, there’s no reason that won’t go down, and it will probably go up.”

    So… it will definitely go up or down?

    Comment by Flynn — November 28, 2013 @ 11:52 pm

  43. “It wasn’t mysterious. It was the classic life of a narcissist who thought they should be important.”
    I think you just inadvertently summed up this thing we call ‘blogging’ with curiously unintended insight, D.

    Comment by Lee C — November 29, 2013 @ 5:53 am

  44. “He was a Marxist who defected to the Soviet Union. But once he returned to the US all of his friends and associates seemed to be far-right anti-communists with ties to the US intelligence industry. Which is pretty weird.”

    Nah. You’re putting too much stress on ideology and not enough on psychology/character. Extremists tend to be attracted to extremism per se, and the vehicle of that extremism is usually of secondary importance.

    I think the core reason the JFK assassination still attracts conspiracy theories can be traced back to one thing – the fact Oswald was rubbed out by Jack Ruby before he could give any testimony, and the fact Ruby’s background was so dodgy and certainly does not fit with the picture of some JFK supporter emotionally overcome by rage and grief.

    I lean towards a Mafia hit, myself. JFK double crossed them, several times, over several matters (Cuba, crime investigations, campaign donations, and probably women as well).

    RFK even more so.

    Comment by Rob Hosking — November 29, 2013 @ 7:05 am

  45. ” One of the goals of right-wing political parties for the last thirty years has been the idea of an ‘ownership society’. The theory is that you extend the ownership of capital to the middle-class and the experience of earning dividends and capital gains through shares, bonds etc turns them all into fervent free-market right-wing voters.”

    Goes back further. Its an update of the “property owning democracy” slogan of the 1950s. It’s why the Sid Holland government sold state houses to tenants after they got elected in 1949, and also had a huge programme to help young couples into new homes. The British Conservatives did the same thing when they got elected in 1951. The idea was to give people a “stake in society” A solid conservative idea.

    Share ownership is only an updated iteration of that – and my own take on it is it makes sense, if you look at demographics.

    Ryall was making speeches about this sort of thing in 1999 last time he was SOE minister – I interviewed about him more recently in NBR (print edition, 1 Nov).

    My own view is its the only policy rationale for the share floats which makes sense. Fiscally it isn’t the disaster the Greens, in particular, have been painting it as but the whole ‘Future Investment Fund/more dosh for schools and hospitals’ is pretty bogus too. It’ll probably be a break even, in the medium term anyway, so far as the govt books go.

    The greater efficiency argument is the third one: its possible, I suppose, but I have my doubts. These companies are pretty well run and already have some very smart people on their boards.

    Comment by Rob Hosking — November 29, 2013 @ 7:34 am

  46. @24. David Hay is indeed Keith Hay’s grandson.

    Comment by Double stranded — November 29, 2013 @ 9:01 am

  47. I lean towards a Mafia hit, myself. JFK double crossed them, several times, over several matters (Cuba, crime investigations, campaign donations, and probably women as well).

    The most likely culprit would be Hoffa. (And he disappeared!)

    But whether the mafia, unions, or rogue CIA, the liklihood of RFK or anyone else in the political establishment letting anyone pick off a president without consequence is highly unlikely.

    It’s possible that others were involved but Oswsld didn’t have need of anyone else for means and motive and after 50 years there’s been no evidence that anyone else was involved.

    Comment by NeilM — November 29, 2013 @ 9:08 am

  48. My own view is its the only policy rationale for the share floats which makes sense.

    Rob – Given that the floats didn’t really create a broad base of new investors – new stakeholders in the “proporty owning democracy” – but rather, largely transfered assets to those who already had a stake, how do you figure this made sense?

    Comment by Gregor W — November 29, 2013 @ 10:07 am

  49. I lean towards a Mafia hit, myself.
    the Mafia theory was probably the most plausible in 1963, but a lot of people who were involved in the Mafia at the time later turned police informer, and revealed lots of stuff the Mafia were involved in. If the Mafia assassinated Kennedy, wouldn’t at least one of these informers have revealed something about it?

    Comment by kahikatea — November 29, 2013 @ 10:11 am

  50. “Maybe it is now clear why Greens would not let Mathers stand for Christchurch East. If she had stood and been elected then there would have been a list vacancy. Allowing for Shaw not wanting to come back from UK for less than a year then the next person on Green List is aspiring leader Hay”

    … except that James Shaw isn’t based in the UK any more, though he still has dealings there. It’s possible that for some reason he wouldn’t be willing to become an MP for just one year, but I think he’d be as likely to as anyone.

    I suspect the real reason for the Greens nominating David Moorhouse for Christchurch East (I don’t have any inside information on this) is that if he wins the Greens will get one more Christchurch-based MP to deal with Christchurch-rebuild-related issues. If Mojo stood and won, they would get one more Wellington-Based MP (James Shaw), and that’s not what Christchurch needs.

    Comment by kahikatea — November 29, 2013 @ 10:21 am

  51. This is not related to anything in this post or thread, but Geoffrey Palmer is a terrible poet even by politician standards and I felt I had to share it.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9433705/The-Reluctant-Prime-Minister

    Comment by helenalex — November 29, 2013 @ 2:46 pm

  52. Geoffrey Palmer is a terrible poet even by politician standards

    Laaaawd have mercy. If that old rabble-rouser Pam Corkery is to be remembered for one thing only, it’s her assessment of Palmer: personality bypass.

    Comment by Joe W — November 29, 2013 @ 4:23 pm

  53. It’s like a green freak show here.

    Comment by tricky dicky — November 30, 2013 @ 6:36 am

  54. NatRad on the forestry deaths: “Minister of Labour Simon Bridges says the Government is doing enough by vigorously enforcing a code of practice, but he says there is a strong level of non-compliance in the industry.” The same Simon Bridges offers us reassurance that deep sea oil drillers won’t cause us any problems because the government is going to make them leave the best paper trail on the planet. Never mind that any major spill will have to be cleaned up by two men equipped with a wheelbarrow and a bucket.
    I accept that we are currently completely addicted to oil and should probably try to get our own, but this credulous and naive faith that the industry will be accident free is just pathetic.

    Comment by Oiltogether now — November 30, 2013 @ 6:14 pm

  55. amazing to see what arseholes the Greens actually are.
    lol roll on 3 three more Nat years.

    Comment by grant — November 30, 2013 @ 8:10 pm

  56. About the idea of an “Ownership Society” something really struck me on the way home tonight.

    The other week when people were feigning apoplectic fits over Metiria Turei’s comments about wanting to see house prices drop, they were really dancing on the heads of pins.

    They were sitting there saying out one side of their mouths that they would like to see houses be more affordable, yet out the other saying they don’t want houses to drop in price.

    The mathematical and financial distinction between these two points is tiny. They try and justify it saying they want house prices to rise, but at a slower rate. This is just taking people for idiots and hoping they can be sufficiently distracted by a rising nominal value, while the real value drops.

    Comment by Michael — December 4, 2013 @ 12:29 am


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