The Dim-Post

August 18, 2014

State of play

Filed under: Politics — danylmc @ 8:43 pm

Various points:

  • People have been talking about what they think the most important revelation from Dirty Politics is. The SIS stuff? The blackmail? Judith Collins’ leaks? Etc? I don’t know, but I think that focusing on the individual bombshells eclipses what the overall book is about: a small cabal of vile, vicious ruthless people trying to take over one of our major political parties.
  • I don’t think many National Party members are going to read Dirty Politics, which is a shame, because I think they’d be shocked about what this handful of people are doing to their party. The chapter on the Rodney selection process – in which Mark Mitchell came back to New Zealand from overseas, decided he’d like to be an MP in a National safe-seat, and paid Slater and Lusk to run smear campaigns against his opponents who were all local members of the National Party, subsequent to which Mitchell won the seat – is something National Party members should take an interest in.
  • Now, there are always factions in political parties. There are always plots and gossip and leaks. And the argument some of National’s apologists are putting up is that if any operative from any political party got their emails hacked and selectively published it would look just as bad: filled with death threats and blackmail plots and lies and smears and bile. I don’t think that’s true. And we happen to have a really great real-life example of a leaked politician’s emails in one of Hager’s previous books, The Hollow Men. Hager published excerpts from hundreds of emails between National leader Don Brash and his staffers and advisers. There was a lot of cynicism in The Hollow Men emails, and a lot of material about the duplicity of the National Party (Brash’s beliefs and agenda if he because Prime Minister were very different from the way he was presented to the rest of the country) but there was nothing that came close to the contents of Dirty Politics, and I’m pretty sure that if there was anything like that in the emails from Brash and his advisers Hager would have published it.
  • Things aren’t going that well for John Key in terms of fronting the issue. There’s a lot of criticism of the way he’s handling this. Key’s problem is that this is probably the worst thing that could possibly have happened to him during the election campaign. Building a strategic alliance with Cameron Slater and incorporating him into National’s communications strategy was a terrible, terrible mistake. There’s no way to spin that. There’s no reasonable explanation Key can possibly give. ‘You can’t unshit the bed,’ as they say in US politics. Right now Key’s trying to tough it out because him and his team have decided that is the least terrible option. They might be right.
  • But the game changed again today with the emergence of the @whaledump account on twitter. This is, evidently, Nicky Hager’s source for Slater’s hacked emails, and they’ve published screen shots substantiating this.
  • Who hacked Slater? My first reaction – at the book launch for Dirty Politics  was that it was Kim Dotcom. Slater’s alleged the same thing. Dotcom and Hager have both denied it.
  • I’m inclined to believe Hager’s denial. Not because I think he’s a saint, but he’s a very smart man who has put his integrity on the line for very, very high stakes, and I think that if Dotcom did hack Slater he’s just as likely to have a falling out with a staffer or business associate who would then run to the media and tell everybody all about it, or just blurt it out on twitter at 4am. I don’t think Hager would risk that.
  • But the @whaledump account seems very Kim Dotcomesque, doesn’t it? Or at least very tech-geek, with the cute graphic and Futurama memes. It feels similar to the Team Key parody account which is widely suspected of being an Internet Party creation. And they’re posting their stuff on mega, which is owned by Kim Dotcom!
  • I suspect some heavy-duty trolling there. I searched for whaledump’s encryption key on the PGP server. They registered it on Tuesday the 5th of August, a week before Hager’s book was published, and listed their user id as: Whaledump <winston.peters@parliament.govt.nz>. It’s designed to keep us guessing.
  • Whoever it is it seems like a very different entity to Nicky Hager. Maybe that’s what we’re meant to think! But it means that National doesn’t know what’s coming. The very first dump of information contained emails that weren’t mentioned in Dirty Politics. Hager said that he would not release any personal details about MP’s private lives, but no one has any idea what the person or people running @whaledump will do.
  • Which means that Key’s office will have to vet Judith Collins’ correspondence with Slater because any of it might be released on twitter at any moment. Maybe I’m misjudging Collins here but I don’t think her career can survive that vetting. I think there’s a high chance that she’ll get a call tonight from one of her fellow MPs who she considers a friend and that they’ll ask her to stand down tomorrow ‘for the good of the party’.

 

 

 

 

57 Comments »

  1. My most striking revelation is how accepting we are of the simple fact that hacking someone’s Email account is OK provided it serves ones individuals purpose or outlook.

    One day the boot may well be on the other foot and than those who except the message in these particular stolen emails, will not have the recourse of righteous moral indignation.

    Comment by Gerrit — August 18, 2014 @ 8:54 pm

  2. My guess for how this will play out:

    1) Key will ask Collins for assurances that there’s no more embarrassing material that could come out, and she’ll give them to him.
    2) More embarrassing material will emerge.
    3) Key will ignore the new material and continue the dead parrot act.

    Comment by pete — August 18, 2014 @ 9:01 pm

  3. My prediction: It is ACTUALLY Winston Peters. Staking my reputation on this one, here.

    Comment by xy — August 18, 2014 @ 9:02 pm

  4. Theory: person/people who DDOS’d WO not the same person that gave Hager the data. Confident that NH wouldn’t fall for that trap of being used by KDC too easily. Also, the attack probably — to use the metaphor going around — left the door wide open for other people to go on in.

    Comment by Jackson James Wood (@_jjw_) — August 18, 2014 @ 9:06 pm

  5. Yes Collins is surely toast, but JK can’t get back to Mr Nice unless he goes further surely? He hasn’t even disowned Slater or Ede yet.

    Oh and @Gerrit, please feel free to explain any moral indignation you might be harboring right now.

    Comment by John Small (@smalltorquer) — August 18, 2014 @ 9:06 pm

  6. @Gerrit: It’s called whistleblowing. It’s a thing. It’s what people with principals and stuff do.

    @Danyl Mega might be a KDC thang but it’s also arguably the best place to do something like that, given its vaunted security / anonymity features. Red-herring I reckon.

    There still so many legs on this story. Who were plotting to get Young Nat women drunk, Roast-busters style, at David Farrar’s “Princess (!?) Party”? Why is Slater providing names & addresses to Ede of the Green activists accused of damaging Nat’l Party billboards? (Explain that one away, Prime Minister.) Who is Robert Ridley and will he lose his professional access to the motor vehicle registration database, because he appears to have used it to breach privacy. And why has the pertinent screen-cap of that vanished from the online ‘mirrors’ of the @whaledump material? Tune in tomorrow, or the next day, or the next…

    Comment by prgcnt — August 18, 2014 @ 9:07 pm

  7. I’m still inclined, unlike Hager, not to believw a word Slater says. So I really doubt KDC has anything to with this.

    Much as I despise KDC and sm no gsm of Hager I’m more inclined to think Hager had more integrity than to associate with him.

    But these sorts of a scandled can take on a life of their own.

    And yes Keybshould have got rid if Collins a while ago.

    It’s all not what I think politics should be about.

    Comment by NeilM — August 18, 2014 @ 9:16 pm

  8. Gerrit, people with principals run schools, people with principles publish illegal activities in the Prime MInister’s offices in ‘the public interest’ and ‘for the public good’.

    Comment by meconism — August 18, 2014 @ 9:18 pm

  9. @Gerrit: It’s called whistleblowing. It’s a thing. It’s what people with principals and stuff do.

    What – school kids do this? Goddam it, that’s the end of my daughter’s playing on the iPad.

    Comment by Andrew Geddis — August 18, 2014 @ 9:18 pm

  10. @Andrew Geddis GAAAAH:/

    Comment by prgcnt — August 18, 2014 @ 9:21 pm

  11. Good point about The Hollow Men.

    I saw @whaledump tweeting on Sunday, and thought they were just a troll. I was very surprised that they turned out to be legit (if still trolling). There’s more than one immature tech person out there, and if Dotcom was involved wouldn’t he have been teasing this instead of Greenwald?

    Comment by eyeonicr — August 18, 2014 @ 9:21 pm

  12. Kim Dotcom is German….

    Schadenfreude is a German word….

    It’s all coming together

    Comment by Daniel — August 18, 2014 @ 9:29 pm

  13. Why does everyone think KDC was the direct source to Hager? There is no way he would be. Absolutely no way. He puts a man or woman, or two, in between him and Hager, and then Hager can genuinely say KDC was not the source. He may not even know KDC is involved. But this has got his mits all over it.

    Comment by Nick K — August 18, 2014 @ 9:30 pm

  14. Look, at the end of the day New Zilders recognise this as as a smear campaign by a left wing conspiracy theorist based on stolen emails and none of this stuff is new and it’s a bunch of dissolving allegations and lies so there’s no point asking any questions about anything ever. It’s spooky though coz of Kim Dotcom and all those burglaries which show that the National Party are the victims here. And Cam Slater is a lovable force of nature. #teamkey.

    Comment by Judge Holden — August 18, 2014 @ 9:35 pm

  15. Agreed Collins has to go. I imagine if this came out six months ago she would be gone.

    I can’t see anything worse coming out than already has though. It is hard to believe anyone could read the stuff about Pleasants and not conclude she is a nasty nasty person.

    Comment by Swan — August 18, 2014 @ 9:39 pm

  16. Agreed with Nick K. And if that is really what happened, Dotcom is a bloody genius.

    Comment by Swan — August 18, 2014 @ 9:41 pm

  17. Danyl: “Maybe I’m misjudging Collins here but I don’t think her career can survive that vetting. I think there’s a high chance that she’ll get a call tonight from one of her fellow MPs who she considers a friend and that they’ll ask her to stand down tomorrow ‘for the good of the party’.”

    There’s so much dirt flying around that I’m now wondering if the Collins/Slater faction has lots on Key which might be influencing it as much as any strategic election issues, especially with the volatile personalities involved. Either of those two could probably fling a lot of mud at the PM and others at the top if they felt they’d been mistreated, and Slater in particular probably would if he were cut off from the party after all his “loyalty”.

    Comment by izogi — August 18, 2014 @ 9:41 pm

  18. People on the margins have done all the work. When is Labour going to get underway on this? Abuse of State power (at best) & Cunliffe is doing nothing.

    With the current National leadership & Slatter running the show no one is safe. (even if Labour win this would push Slater over the edge. Nothing would change)

    Legislation cant be past it an issue of culture and Cunnlife not doing his job.

    Comment by Simon — August 18, 2014 @ 9:42 pm

  19. On Key’s strategy: it is (sadly, amorally) not that stupid. The news cycle is ever faster, and boredom thresholds ever lower. Key’s banking on most of the media moving on, and the public – or enough of them – wanting them to (“More Hager? Boring!”).

    The book could be a hundred blog posts, and if released over a hundred days, Key would be toast long before the end. But saying “And another thing … page XX!” doesn’t have the same effect, and after a while people tune out.

    My guess is that Key’s unattractive response will cost National votes, but not (yet) the election. Whereas dumping Collins would start a war and seal their fate.

    Comment by sammy 2.0 — August 18, 2014 @ 9:44 pm

  20. “Who hacked Slater? My first reaction – at the book launch for Dirty Politics was that it was Kim Dotcom. Slater’s alleged the same thing. Dotcom and Hager have both denied it.”

    There are rumours it was the work of Anonymous, though they never claimed their trademark responsibility on YouTube.

    Comment by Kumara Republic (@kumararepublic) — August 18, 2014 @ 9:44 pm

  21. I think we can all agree that KDC is a very bright man – a very bright and DANGEROUS man. He uses his substantial resources to try to bring down whoever is against him. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has programmes to look for and monitor any online discussions that mention his name. Hey – if governments can do it, so can rich individuals, particularly ones who have the resources and skills. I know it sounds paranoid, but so has so much of what has come through the news in the last year.

    Comment by David in Chch — August 18, 2014 @ 9:51 pm

  22. I have to admit I found myself chuckling at DPF’s latest defensive post, particularly where he claims that, hey, haven’t we all fantasised about assassinating people in emails? DPF clearly lives in a bit of a bubble. Not that immature venting via email is illegal, but it’s funny how naively DPF assumes that everybody else indulges in the same juvenile venting he, Slater and Kate do.

    More substantially, he tries to claim that the people really to blame for Pleasants being harassed are Labour supporters.

    Comment by kalvarnsen — August 18, 2014 @ 10:00 pm

  23. My guess is that Key’s unattractive response will cost National votes, but not (yet) the election. Whereas dumping Collins would start a war and seal their fate.

    I reckon. Start a messy and brutal internecine conflict a month out from an election? Can’t see that happening.

    Comment by Psycho Milt — August 18, 2014 @ 10:06 pm

  24. David in Chch – its called google – real nasty

    Comment by Cnr Joe — August 18, 2014 @ 10:06 pm

  25. @Gerrit:One day the boot may well be on the other foot

    From whale’s perspective that day is today!

    Comment by eszett — August 18, 2014 @ 10:20 pm

  26. “When is Labour going to get underway on this”

    I hope not in earnest until the wider public outside the Thorndon Bubble has started to pay attention. It’s crucial that this not be written off as simply a partisan attack. And in any case, there’s no need to put the boot in. Key and Collins are doing fine screwing this up on their own, and as the heat stays on, the likelihood of someone inside the Nat camp going nuts or betraying to save their own skin increases.

    Robertson and Cunliffe have both commented on the OIA/SIS angle and called for Collins to go though. They are not silent. Probably best to leave the Nats to it for now.

    Comment by Stephen J — August 18, 2014 @ 10:21 pm

  27. National have lost control of the agenda on this issue. Even if DPF is playing don’t mention the war and Key is playing lets pretend hes never heard of the war to many journalists are asking increasingly sharp question. Keys handling of the issue has been abysmal. It won’t go away for a little while yet. Lots of juicy stuff to play with.

    Comment by Sanctuary — August 18, 2014 @ 10:25 pm

  28. “There still so many legs on this story. Who were plotting to get Young Nat women drunk, Roast-busters style, at David Farrar’s “Princess (!?) Party”? Why is Slater providing names & addresses to Ede of the Green activists accused of damaging Nat’l Party billboards? (Explain that one away, Prime Minister.) Who is Robert Ridley and will he lose his professional access to the motor vehicle registration database, because he appears to have used it to breach privacy. And why has the pertinent screen-cap of that vanished from the online ‘mirrors’ of the @whaledump material? Tune in tomorrow, or the next day, or the next.”
    -prgcnt @9:07pm

    …now, everyone tell me again how the left don’t smear their opponents on blogs…

    Comment by Milla — August 18, 2014 @ 10:26 pm

  29. I think we can all agree that KDC is a very bright man

    He is also a playboy entrepreneur and a political firebrand, so why not?

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/aug/17/kim-dotcom-megaupload-new-zealand-interview

    Comment by Paul Rowe — August 18, 2014 @ 10:28 pm

  30. It wasn’t KDC I suspect.
    My money is this being closer to home than the PM would like.

    Posting on Mega qualifies as an ‘orgy of evidence’.

    Comment by Gregor W — August 18, 2014 @ 10:44 pm

  31. @Milla “…now, everyone tell me again how the left don’t smear their opponents on blogs…”

    Seriously!? I’m not the left. I’m reading from Dirty Politcs and @whaledumps leaked emails. Breathless “smear” style in tribute to WhaleOil.

    Try again..?

    Comment by prgcnt — August 18, 2014 @ 10:54 pm

  32. @Milla https://twitter.com/cocosolid/status/501297491975737344

    Comment by prgcnt — August 18, 2014 @ 11:03 pm

  33. 1: The Kim Dotcom link is A: part of a three prong troll between winstons pgp key, assanges st address and KDCs business. Incidentally Mega just happens to be a good place to dump too.

    2: Whaledump signed off with The Carpenters Close To You album cover. Either my head is spinning at the posibility or it is prong 4 of the troll.

    Comment by michael — August 19, 2014 @ 2:58 am

  34. I’m with Michael. I lold quite hard at the whaeldump acct. even the decription in the herald was trlly.

    the “omg it must be KDC because hackers and KDC hates whale so it must be him, and how is he doing it, must be a paid army of ninjas and stuff, wake up sheeple!’, is ridiculous. Or at least, it has not much in the way of supportting evidence.

    Way less evidence, for example, than anything Hager has ever alleged about anything, an the’s a screaming left wing conspiracy theorist!!

    The internet is large and contains multitudes, even in little ol New Zealand. Whale oil has talked real tough on it for years. People get doxxed. I’m only surprised it didn’t happen sooner.

    Comment by Pascal's bookie — August 19, 2014 @ 5:33 am

  35. Is the hacking of a computer system and the subsequent dissemination of the information obtained by the hack different if a private individual does it versus if the state does the hacking?

    Most are against the state spying on but are comfortable with individuals doing the same, it would seem.

    Maybe Andrew Geddes can explain the vehemently opposed state spying (hacking?) position here

    http://pundit.co.nz/content/ignorantia-juris-excusat

    versus this whistle blowing?

    Comment by Gerrit — August 19, 2014 @ 6:04 am

  36. No, hacking isn’t fine, at all. We should all play by Queensberry rules.

    But when you’re being stomped on, garotted and kicked in the genitals (a particular obsession of the Slater Gang), you start to lose faith in your opponents’ sense of fair play. If the Right want political debate to follow democracy’s decent rule book, start speaking out against the bastards who have shredded it. Less diverting, more distancing – and better do it fast.

    It’s you they’re harming … even if you can’t see it yet.

    Comment by sammy 2.0 — August 19, 2014 @ 6:20 am

  37. “…Who were plotting to get Young Nat women drunk, Roast-busters style, at David Farrar’s “Princess (!?) Party”?…”

    We should ask the happy penguin just that question on his blog today.

    Comment by Sanctuary — August 19, 2014 @ 6:58 am

  38. Is the hacking of a computer system and the subsequent dissemination of the information obtained by the hack different if a private individual does it versus if the state does the hacking?

    Yes. Yes it is.

    We treat the state differently to private individuals all the time, because it’s a lot bigger, better resourced, and already given lots of legal powers to do things (such as, get warrants and go looking legally, if there are good grounds to do so). If the state exceeds that legal authority, then we should be concerned because it already has lots and lots of power within the law, so it it’s going outside of this then … well, where does it stop?

    Private individuals also can’t legally go breaking the law for what they say is good reason. They can’t escape criminal liability because they say they are on the side of the angels. However, if they are on the side of the angels, then we can still admire their halos and enjoy the music they play on their harps.

    Comment by Andrew Geddis — August 19, 2014 @ 7:38 am

  39. “…(a particular obsession of the Slater Gang)…”

    The constant use of violent sexual imagery and the sexual obsessions in Cameron Slater’s communications are another insight into his base and vulgar mind.

    Comment by Sanctuary — August 19, 2014 @ 8:07 am

  40. There is no evidence that KDC has anything to do with this. KDC is not the only person in NZ who can use a computer.

    Mega is just a convenient, relatively-anonymous way to distribute documents. And @whaledump can be reasonably confident that Mega will not co-operate with the GCSB (or similar) to identify who she is.

    Comment by RJL — August 19, 2014 @ 8:26 am

  41. I think it really IS Winston Peters.

    Comment by doloras — August 19, 2014 @ 9:02 am

  42. “…KDC is not the only person in NZ who can use a computer…”

    There is a misconception that hacking is hard. I love all the talk about the DDOS attack being used as a cunning diversion to allow the covert insertion of malacious software with backlit hackers in hoodies and Guy Fawkes masks doing it all in 36pt font Hollywood command line UNIX.

    Personally, if I was going to hack a gmail/facebook/twitter account I’d just brute force attack it in the knowledge that most people use obvious and easy to remember passwords rather than ones made up of random numbers, case sensitive random letters and various symbols like %$*&.

    Comment by Sanctuary — August 19, 2014 @ 9:17 am

  43. Sanc: “There is a misconception that hacking is hard.”

    One thing which surprises me is the underlying presumption is that the only leaked material is what Nicky Hager was given some time ago towards his book. If Cameron Slater didn’t even realise he’d been hacked until last week, it doesn’t seem implausible that whoever did it has continued to have access to Slater’s current email until then, and very possibly still has it depending on what sorts of measures Cameron’s been taking.

    There could still be more to come which Hager’s never even had the opportunity to see.

    Comment by izogi — August 19, 2014 @ 9:36 am

  44. @Sanc “There is a misconception that hacking is hard.”

    Yes. Whereas it is just doing with a computer system (or application) what the person running it (or who designed it) did not expect you to do. Sometimes that it is hard, sometimes that is easy. Depends on precisely what you are doing and the precise system.

    On the other hand, doing what is intended with a computer system is quite hard for many people. So, I suppose it is fair enough that by comparison “hacking” would be considered by many to be “hard”.

    Comment by RJL — August 19, 2014 @ 10:05 am

  45. Gerrit:”One day the boot may well be on the other foot”

    And if that happens, if someone can prove the Green’s have been working with someone as odious as Slater, and in as vile a way, I will stop voting for them. Not just in one election, but until they find a way of proving those sorts of acts will not happen again.

    How about you?

    Comment by terence — August 19, 2014 @ 10:53 am

  46. “And they’re posting their stuff on mega, which is owned by Kim Dotcom!

    So does Farrar, he says it the best choice, when he plays at shopping reporter

    Comment by ghostwhowalksnz — August 19, 2014 @ 1:22 pm

  47. Terence,

    By the boot on the other foot, I don,t mean political parties. It is at a personal level I’m referring to. Would you like your personal emails hacked? If you are happy for Slater to have his emails hacked, then when your emails are hacked, don’t complain. You may say that there is nothing of public interest in your email collection. But we don’t know that until we hack and review them.

    Comment by Gerrit — August 19, 2014 @ 3:00 pm

  48. “You may say that there is nothing of public interest in your email collection.”

    And what’s more, there’s no good reason to believe there would be (i.e. I’m not powerful, I’m not politically influential, I don’t wreck people’s lives with my blog.) Therefore there is no obvious public interest case for hacking.

    In the hope you can now see the flaws in your argument.

    Comment by terence — August 19, 2014 @ 4:18 pm

  49. Gerrit’s not that good with equivalence if I cast my mind back to some of his comments on other lefty blogs.

    Comment by Gregor W — August 19, 2014 @ 5:44 pm

  50. terence,

    You may think you have influence or don’t wreck peoples life’s, but we will stack your emails to see if tha tis true. You don’t mind do you. For you are not the judge of what material is in the public interest in your emails, the hackers are.

    I see an old sparing partner is in the room. Hi GregorW.

    Going back to high school chemistry, the equivalence point is when the right amount of acid or alkali is added to a solution to render it neutral (correct me if I’m wrong, it is over 50 years ago).

    Think I’ve actually reached that point in this discussion. If you don’t mind one persons emails being hacked (for what ever reason) than don’t be suprised your own is hacked (for what ever reason).

    Comment by Gerrit — August 19, 2014 @ 9:52 pm

  51. stack = hack. Missing the edit feature. Also should be “have no influence”

    Comment by Gerrit — August 19, 2014 @ 9:54 pm

  52. With john keys spying legislation no hacking will be required ……… they are just harvesting everything you send.

    Then they just have to read it before sending it to whale spew …….

    I hope john key gets investigated into how he got his top draw full of secrets on his opponents.

    Sounds very J Edgar Hoover to me ………….

    Comment by reason — August 20, 2014 @ 12:49 am

  53. Hey Gerrit. Can you point to anyone saying the hacker shouldn’t face any legal consequences for whatever crimes s/he/they have committed?

    The hacking, and the stuff we learn from the results of that hacking, are two different things. You can be appalled at both. Or at one and not the other. But I’ve seen very few people (none, as it happens) saying the hacking should be ignored because Slater is a proven toxin in this here polis what we, asa country, have here.

    I’ve seen plenty of people saying we should let the toxin be because OMG Hacking though. Funny that.

    Comment by Pascal's bookie — August 20, 2014 @ 5:24 am

  54. Pascal’s Bookie,

    No I don’t see anyone (including me) saying a caught hacker should not face legal consequences. But first you must catch them.

    Using information from an uncaught hacker, that fine as long as the hackee is a loathsome person, that is what you are saying?

    Problem is that it will cut both ways, your loathsome person is someone’s saint, your saint is someone’s loathsome person.

    I’m not saying that toxin should not be exposed, just that hacking will now be utilised by all parties (not just political but think business, social, media, etc.,etc.

    As long as you don’t get caught hacking, off course. And if the hacker reside overseas the local jurisdiction may well count for naught, even if you knew who the hacker was.

    Remember the power and the judgment of public interest in your (or anyone’s) emails is firmly in the hands of the hacker. If that hacker happens to be the state, you are in even bigger trouble.

    I look at my own web site (a simple HTML only compilation) log files and see daily attempts at hacking, usually for .php or .asp data files. (eg “POST /wp-login.php HTTP/1.1” 404 210 ). If my simple web sites gets daily hits like that, just imagine email servers constant barrage of hacking attempts.

    How long before yours are cracked and downloaded?

    Comment by Gerrit — August 20, 2014 @ 6:02 am

  55. You need to stop wetting the bed Gerrit.

    The current law says that Hager,unless he was involved personally in the hacking, is fine. So yes, using the fruits of hacking to expose, via journalism, things that are in the public interest is legal, and I agree that it should be legal.

    Do you want to change the law?

    Comment by Pascal's bookie — August 20, 2014 @ 9:15 am

  56. “The spy watchdog is set to investigate why blogger Cameron Slater was given declassified Security Intelligence Service documents refused to reporters….Prime Minister John Key has repeatedly denied his office asked for the OIA request to be fast-tracked. Today he welcomed the investigation. “I think that is very good news,” Key said. – Fairfax

    I predict this investigation will be thorough and impartial or something.

    Comment by Gregor W — August 20, 2014 @ 3:55 pm

  57. PB @ 53
    “I’ve seen plenty of people saying we should let the toxin be because OMG Hacking though. Funny that.”
    Wait: are we talking about climategate now? You know: those emails that were hacked (or leaked) and provided evidence of breaking of the law, the Freedom of Information Act (UK equiv of OIA) and bullying to prevent papers being published, bullying to get editors sacked and journals blacklisted. Oh, and Mike’s famous Nature trick. A couple of “thorough” and “independent” inquiries, with “robust” terms of reference, found nothing to see, move along.

    What Hager appears to have exposed is pretty rank, but then, we all knew politics was a bit rank. But it’s a bit off when “the world’s top climate scientists” behave as politicians. Oops: off topic. Sorry: as you were!

    Comment by Clunking Fist — August 20, 2014 @ 6:44 pm


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