The Dim-Post

September 15, 2014

F for fake?

Filed under: general idiocy — danylmc @ 5:14 pm

An old rule of forgery – which I just invented – is that a fake is a collection of cliches bundled together to produce a work and an original is a collection of idiosyncrasies bundled together to produce same. Take the Judith Collins/Cameron Slater conversations, which Collins and Slater insisted were forgeries. They seemed instantly convincing because instead of saying anything particularly scandalous the blogger and the Minister merely swapped stupid nicknames and rumours about Labour MPs. Authentic voices never say quite what we expect, or wish that they would.

The email Kim Dotcom has produced says exactly what he wants it to say, compressing his entire theory that the New Zealand government collaborated with US corporations to grant him residency here so he could be extradited and sent to prison in the US, into three brief paragraphs and corroborating it perfectly, throwing in ‘proof’ that John Key lied to the public and Parliament into the bargain. And at this point there’s no other content. No email chain. No other documents.

Maybe Dotcom will produce more stuff in time and cast this email into a new, more believable light. Or, maybe, he’s just really unlucky and this totally authentic email which completely clears him just happens to look like an utter fraud. That’d be sad for him, because this email seems unbelievable.

30 Comments »

  1. Yeah, pretty hard to believe. If this is all he has he’s been played – which doesn’t seem implausible.

    The stuff Greenwald + Snowden have on the other hand…

    Comment by lefty — September 15, 2014 @ 5:17 pm

  2. Is it true? Is it a bit of planted black propaganda designed to discredit Dotcom? Time will tell, I guess. Key’s blanket denials in the face of Edward Snowden (who not been proved wrong on anything he has claimed) saying he has seen NZ mass surveillance data is puzzling.

    How about the possibility the Americans have used one of their submarines to tap the Southern Cross cable, without our knowledge? That would open a whole NEW can of worms.

    Comment by Sanctuary — September 15, 2014 @ 5:22 pm

  3. How about the possibility the Americans have used one of their submarines to tap the Southern Cross cable, without our knowledge?

    Lol. It would certainly raise a few questions – such as how exactly you just hack into the Southern Cross Cable at the bottom of the Tasman sea? Send some scuba diver out and plug into it with his Atari, like John Conner did with the ATM machine in Terminator 2? Sounds legit.

    Comment by Exclamation Mark — September 15, 2014 @ 5:31 pm

  4. If I had proof, I’d wait on giving it, to catch out more lies.

    Comment by Ben Wilson — September 15, 2014 @ 5:36 pm

  5. Greenwald destroys Key with facts. Game over. But wait … Kim Dotcom steps in to save him. What a tosser.

    E-mail forgers later revealed to be Slater, Lusk, Ede …

    Comment by sammy 2.0 — September 15, 2014 @ 5:36 pm

  6. The bad news is NZ politics is now dominated by this stuff which is all very entertaining in its soap-opera meets Jason Bourne way, generating lots of traffic in the social media.

    The good news is people outside the bubble are more interested in issues like mortgage rates.

    Comment by NeilM — September 15, 2014 @ 5:38 pm

  7. US subs can do anything, a few years back they were alleged to have planted nuclear bombs on the sea floor to cause tsunamis.

    Comment by NeilM — September 15, 2014 @ 5:40 pm

  8. > It would certainly raise a few questions – such as how exactly you just hack into the Southern Cross Cable at the bottom of the Tasman sea?

    I could tell you, but I’d have to find out who you are and where you live first.

    Comment by Ben Wilson — September 15, 2014 @ 5:44 pm

  9. I could tell you, but I’d have to find out who you are and where you live first.

    Isn’t that the NZ Police’s standard response to OIA?

    Comment by pete — September 15, 2014 @ 5:48 pm

  10. ..”such as how exactly you just hack into the Southern Cross Cable at the bottom of the Tasman sea? Send some scuba diver out and plug into it with his Atari,???”
    Nuclear submarine USS Jimmy Carter
    Carter is roughly 100 feet (30 m) longer than the other two ships of her class. This is due to the insertion of a plug (additional section) known as the Multi-Mission Platform (MMP), which allows launch and recovery of ROVs and Navy SEAL forces. The plug features a fairing over a wasp-waist shaped passageway allowing crew to pass between the fore and aft sections of the hull while providing a space to store ROVs and special equipment that may need to launch and recover from the submarine.[2]
    Carter has additional maneuvering devices fitted fore and aft that will allow her to keep station over selected targets in odd currents.[citation needed] Past submarines outfitted this way[citation needed] were used to tap undersea cables, to intercept communications of foreign countries. Intelligence experts speculate that the MMP may find use in similar missions as an underwater splicing chamber for fiber optic cables.[3][4][5][6]
    Wikipedia
    But of course the SX Cable runs to Hawaii, USA.

    Comment by ghostwhowalksnz — September 15, 2014 @ 5:48 pm

  11. Why would they use a sub? The cable comes ashore in Moro Bay (lovely place btw) on the central coast in California, they could just do it there. This is the most whacko suggestion of the day and there’s been plenty.

    Comment by Alan Johnstone (@AlanJohnstone2) — September 15, 2014 @ 5:55 pm

  12. It does seem to good to be true – but the last twenty seconds of this interview with Key point in a different direction…

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11324988

    Comment by Mag Rod Aigh — September 15, 2014 @ 5:59 pm

  13. apologies that should be too good to be true

    Comment by Mag Rod Aigh — September 15, 2014 @ 6:01 pm

  14. The internet has programmed certain people to scream “Fake!” The email doesn’t scream fake to me. We know Key is a liar. We know that the New Zealand Herald obtained emails that showed GCSB employees felt Dotcom’s immigration status was the result of “political pressure”. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence, not just this email, that shows the Key government has been up to some serious shenanigans when it comes to Dotcom. So we’ve got the context around the email. If it turns out Dotcom has further evidence to back up the “fake” email what will be your response? Also, it’s absolutely shameful how the New Zealand Herald is handling this story. Their headline is “Dotcom big reveal a fake”, as if it’s a fact based on a denial from Warner Brothers. That’s the kind of shoddy misleading journalism you’d expect from a Murdoch newspaper.

    Comment by anonymous — September 15, 2014 @ 6:17 pm

  15. Nah, It will be revealed that David Cunliffe was installed in the Labour leadership by deep cover National Party operatives

    Comment by Tinakori — September 15, 2014 @ 6:29 pm

  16. Anybody else worried about the very unAmerican date formate on the email?

    Comment by rayinnz — September 15, 2014 @ 6:30 pm

  17. Apparently this isn’t the only email though…

    From: “Michael Ellis”
    To: “Kevin Tsujihara:
    Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 14:38:02 +GMT

    Hi Kevin,

    Been doing lots of groundwork in New Zealand. Working with the Prime Minister. Think this could be the game changer.

    Mike

    P.S: This is bad for Phil Goff

    Comment by J Mex — September 15, 2014 @ 7:09 pm

  18. I think Greenwald is absolutely right about the bizarre sneery way that John Key responds to this stuff. “Little henchman” and “loser” sounds like fourth former who doesn’t know that ad hominem attacks make him sounds stupid and defensive. Joyce is also clearly very fond of this genre.

    Comment by Dr Foster — September 15, 2014 @ 7:17 pm

  19. Edward Snowden for PM!

    Comment by Sanctuary — September 15, 2014 @ 7:57 pm

  20. Wonderful listening to people discuss ideas, without being interrupted mid-sentence by someone shouting at them “but dot com is a thief! How would you feel if he stole your work!!!!!”

    Whole minutes to develop an argument, what a luxury.

    Comment by MeToo — September 15, 2014 @ 8:07 pm

  21. “…Wonderful listening to people discuss ideas…”

    It is at moments like these that you realise just how shit our local media actually is.

    Comment by Sanctuary — September 15, 2014 @ 8:08 pm

  22. Isn’t there at least one ‘fake’ e-mail doing the rounds that Damian Christie created on twitter with the hashtag #akshuallyfake as a joke, that is being treated seriously because at some point someone removed the hashtag? See here, about halfway down the page: http://publicaddress.net/system/cafe/hard-news-dirty-politics/?i=1400#replies

    Comment by Rich — September 15, 2014 @ 8:24 pm

  23. Yep.

    Comment by MeToo — September 15, 2014 @ 8:33 pm

  24. The herald reports no mention of the email was made at the great revelation.

    If so then it was a fake and KDC knew.

    And Asange, still unwilling to face his past actions, gets lauded.

    Welcome to the brave new world of NZ politics.

    Comment by NeilM — September 15, 2014 @ 8:51 pm

  25. Dr Foster “I think Greenwald is absolutely right about the bizarre sneery way that John Key responds to this stuff. “Little henchman” and “loser” sounds like fourth former who doesn’t know that ad hominem attacks make him sounds stupid and defensive” it makes him sound like Clark when she referred to haters and wreckers and said shrek the sheep was better company or called Campbell a little creep . I think theres a few aspects of being pm you get over very quickly no matter how much you wanted the job in the first place . BTW googling Gleen Greenwald sock puppet produces some hilarious results.

    Comment by Del Griffith — September 15, 2014 @ 9:26 pm

  26. Er Glenn Greenwald sock puppet for example http://patterico.com/2006/07/27/annotated-wuzzadem-the-facts-behind-the-greenwald-sock-puppetry/

    Comment by Del Griffith — September 15, 2014 @ 9:31 pm

  27. Welcome to the brave new world of NZ politics….says NeilM with drumroll.

    We always knew that the complacently self-absorbed would continue to dream their petty dreams, whatever was revealed tonight. Your welcome is misplaced, however – the real depths of dishonesty were made obvious with the publishing of Hager’s work. To anyone with half an eye, that is the ‘brave new world’ your half-assed irony should be pointing to. Back then, IIRC, you were very much to the forefront in your desire to see nothing and to stay in the gutter.

    Comment by paritutu — September 15, 2014 @ 9:50 pm

  28. “believable” / “unbelievable” is not a place anyone should go. I’d been on the losing end of both at one time or another….and wrongly so. It taught me an important lesson: If you don’t know, just say so and leave it at that. Dotcom’s email may well be utterly genuine. But I have no way of knowing…so I believe nothing. At the same time, John Key has told so many half truths and outright lies I definitely know he can’t be trusted.

    Comment by Steve W — September 15, 2014 @ 10:41 pm

  29. Steve. The above may be true, but does it ring true that Kim Dot Com and InternetMana won’t discuss the email because it is before the Privileges Committee????

    Here’s what we know:

    Kim Dot Com desperately wants to bring down John Key [fact]
    He doesn’t want National to win the election [fact]
    He now doesn’t want to discuss the email because he is happy to wait for the privileges committee to deal with it AFTER the election (Wait, What?)

    Any impartial observer should realise that if KDC knows that email is true, he would be going hammer and tongs over it for the next 4 days. He ain’t, so it ain’t.

    Comment by J Mex — September 16, 2014 @ 2:34 pm

  30. “believable” / “unbelievable” is not a place anyone should go. I’d been on the losing end of both at one time or another….and wrongly so. It taught me an important lesson: If you don’t know, just say so and leave it at that.

    Wait: why are you trying to thread-jack this with CAGW and the role of skepticism?! Lol.

    Comment by Clunking Fist — September 16, 2014 @ 6:58 pm


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