The Dim-Post

February 22, 2016

The mysterious case of the hate speech comments on the RNZ Facebook page (updated)

Filed under: Uncategorized — danylmc @ 5:40 am

Over the weekend a very odd thing happened on the Facebook page for Radio New Zealand’s Checkpoint with John Campbell program. This is a place where videos from Campbell’s show get posted, and people can comment on them, and it normally attracts a tiny handful of comments, or, just-as-often, none.

But over the last couple days a video about John Key wearing the Lockwood flag lapel attracted almost six hundred comments, many of them shockingly offensive. Via WhaleOil:

Screen-Shot-2016-02-21-at-11.28.39-AMScreen-Shot-2016-02-21-at-11.19.42-AM

Screen-Shot-2016-02-21-at-11.28.30-AM

Who then editorialises:

Radio NZ is state funded, and this is what your tax dollars are funding. John Campbell is inciting that sort of behaviour too.

Here’s the real problem, they are wishing death on the Prime Minister for the “crime” of wearing a lapel pin. If they want to kill you for that what won’t they kill you for?

Radio NZ and John Campbell should hold their heads in shame, for not moderating their supporters, and for inciting criminal acts of threatening violence. I’m not sure the state broadcaster should be facilitating death threats and violence on the Prime Minister.

David Farrar quickly linked to this post, writing:

If Helen Clark was still Prime Minister and a taxpayer funded media site had comments like this up about her for several days, I’d imagine there would be mass sackings at the highest level.

And Matthew Hooton and various other National supporters took to twitter to lament John Campbell’s support among left-wing neo-nazis:

mh

Radio New Zealand should absolutely be moderating comments like the ones WhaleOil found. They haven’t in the past because they haven’t had comments like that before. Or, really, many comments at all. Hooton argues that they’ve been flushed out by ‘the NZ left’s hate campaigns’. But here’s the thing. You can search Facebook for the profiles captured in WhaleOil’s screenshots. None of them seem to be left-wing activists, or commentators on New Zealand politics, or previous RNZ commentators, or, in a couple of cases, active Facebook users. Although it’s hard to know for sure, because they don’t tend to have any of the autobiographical information or other interactions that normal Facebook users do.

So it seems really odd that people like Insane Clown Posse fan ‘Tim Wikidclownz‘ would all randomly one weekend decide to pour into a sleepy Radio New Zealand Facebook page and leave comments about gassing John Key’s mother and similar obscenities. And that WhaleOil, the guy who stumbled over that copy of The Luminaries uploaded to Mega that only the person who illegally uploaded it would know about, also stumbled over these.

Update: From the comments:

I’d venture that that a host of Gamergate-style shell accounts haven’t been created in this instance (ie: they’re real people) but I’d also venture that the weird mix of commenters that turned up here haven’t made Checkpoint’s Facebook page their regular haunt (ie: they’re not a reflection of the mainstream of RNZ listeners, let alone the left).

The key here is the 782 shares the video’s received since 18 February. Anti-John Key groups, activist groups and plenty of individuals with sizeable public followings of their own. This is the reality of having content go viral, and being prepared to moderate when people pile on to it – both of which are relatively new experiences for RNZ as it starts ushering out video content.

95 Comments »

  1. i think i’m going to go out on a limb here danyl.

    guys… there’s a small chance that failoil astroturfed them… I KNOW right, what are the odds that an epsilon-minus like slater would do something like this?

    Comment by Che Tibby — February 22, 2016 @ 6:09 am

  2. I’m not positive what happened. People do say horrible things on the internet, but the combination of factors here makes this look super-suspicious. I guess the way you’d do it is to rainbow table a bunch of NZ facebook accounts.

    Comment by danylmc — February 22, 2016 @ 6:28 am

  3. Seriously?? Is this really a thing in NZ right now??? FFS people.

    Comment by Sanctuary — February 22, 2016 @ 7:08 am

  4. Lol so it’s a right wing conspiracy now.
    I have seen similar comments on trade me sites and other Facebook posts among the youth( I have a mid 20s unemployed nephew) .the so called educated leaders of the left encourage the less educated to attack the prime minister. I am not saying that Andrew little would approve of anti-Semitic speech but they are responsible .

    Comment by Graham — February 22, 2016 @ 7:13 am

  5. Latest episode in the ongoing “People are being nasty on the Internet-your lot did it worse-no *your* lot did it worse-no your lot did it worse TIMES INFINITY!!” melodrama.

    Comment by robhosking — February 22, 2016 @ 7:20 am

  6. So, my first reaction was that something negative comes out about the left (aka caught with their pants down a bit) and out come the conspiracy theories. Why can’t people on the left ever just say “yeah, that page should be moderated, that’s a really bad look, how embarrassing.” And I note that nobody is really claiming that the situation here has nothing to do with the left (i.e. why does John Campbell’s page on the RNZ website have anything to do with the left). Which is a bad look already.

    And then I read your content, and go….yeah, WhaleOil. That’s possible. Who knows.

    Comment by PaulL — February 22, 2016 @ 7:22 am

  7. Latest episode in the ongoing “People are being nasty on the Internet-your lot did it worse-no *your* lot did it worse-no your lot did it worse TIMES INFINITY!!” melodrama.

    I don’t feel like I need to defend ‘my side’ or ‘the left’ which is why I spend most of my time complaining about how crazy they are. This just seems like a really obvious scam, so worth pointing out.

    Comment by danylmc — February 22, 2016 @ 7:32 am

  8. Are you suggesting it’s a… false flag?

    Comment by Gazzaj — February 22, 2016 @ 7:37 am

  9. “Why can’t people on the left ever just say “yeah, that page should be moderated, that’s a really bad look, how embarrassing.”

    That was a widely held position on the reliably awful twitter yesterday, laong with poeple pointing out the dubiousness of DPF claiming it’s the worst hate speech he’s ever seen.

    “And I note that nobody is really claiming that the situation here has nothing to do with the left (i.e. why does John Campbell’s page on the RNZ website have anything to do with the left). ”

    Aprt from Whaleoil, who started the story, and Hooton who reckons it shouldn’t be moderated but left online to prove a point about the left online

    Comment by Pascal's bookie — February 22, 2016 @ 7:39 am

  10. I think even a casual trawl of certain sites would reveal some pretty shocking past and present sentiments about John Key. Was KDC’s video encouraging ‘youth’ to ‘F**k John Key’ a RW conspiracy? What about that dude suggesting raping his daughter would be cool? Was that a RW conspiracy?

    As much as I can accept that this is a set-up by Whale-oil in theory, I have to remind you that there is a lamentable trail of bread-crumbs to some ‘left-leaning’ sites which suggest that a sustained and personalised meme of ‘hatred’ about John Key has characterised their strategy to attack and undermine his personal credentials to be PM. (Heh, “Slightly creepy manchild” was the mildest of rebukes by way of comparison). Often the spontaneous ‘hatred’ (or is it orchestrated faux-hatred?) shows up as unmoderated or unrestrained or unchallenged statements which collectively (IMO) have contributed to a sense that to actively hate on John Key is some kind of fashion-statement. This has almost become a way to spot the boorish person in a group, – you know the one who wants to open a conversation about what a d**k John Key is, when every-one else is talking about the weather, or something totally unrelated at the time..

    Interesting that after your post about meta-messaging, this ‘I hate John Key’ phenomenon appears to have completely gone over your head, Danyl, I agree with you, though. It is a conspiracy, But it didn’t start with Whale Oil…

    Comment by leeharmanclark — February 22, 2016 @ 7:41 am

  11. That wasn’t a dig at you, Danyl. More about some of the conversation over this on the Twitter.

    Comment by robhosking — February 22, 2016 @ 7:45 am

  12. …it seems really odd that people like Insane Clown Posse fan ‘Tim Wikidclownz‘ would all randomly one weekend decide to pour into a sleepy Radio New Zealand Facebook page and leave comments about gassing John Key’s mother and similar obscenities.

    I’m trying to picture him holding up a “Juggalos against the TPPA” banner at the recent protests, or putting a “Keep it this way” flag sticker on his car to highlight his conservative affection for the nation’s traditional flag.,, Nah, not working.

    Comment by Psycho Milt — February 22, 2016 @ 7:47 am

  13. Look, who gives a shit? Seriously? If it was an infantile act by Slater so what? The guy is a fucking mental cot case. And if it wasn’t then ZOMG!!!!! Some idiots have posted on this internet!!!!! There are 34000 gigabytes of data every second on the internet, some of it idiocy! Amazing, huh?

    When did New Zealand turn into a land of juvenile morons who spend their time bickering about clickbait and trolls?

    The collapse of journalism in New Zealand is more than just an issue of reporting standards. Collectively as a civic society NZ is discernibly stupider than it was just ten years ago ago.

    Comment by Sanctuary — February 22, 2016 @ 7:49 am

  14. “Collectively as a civic society NZ is discernibly stupider than it was just ten years ago ago.” …Nah, you’re just getting old, Sanc.

    Comment by leeharmanclark — February 22, 2016 @ 7:56 am

  15. Sounds a bit too clever for Slater.

    Comment by NeilM — February 22, 2016 @ 8:00 am

  16. No, in NZ the debate is now so completely about the sizzle that even the grown ups have forgotten there was ever a steak.

    Comment by Sanctuary — February 22, 2016 @ 8:02 am

  17. I have seen similar comments on trade me sites and other Facebook posts among the youth( I have a mid 20s unemployed nephew) .the so called educated leaders of the left encourage the less educated to attack the prime minister. I am not saying that Andrew little would approve of anti-Semitic speech but they are responsible .

    I have seen similar nasty right-wing comments on Stuff, YouTube … oh, let’s just call it “the internet”. I am not saying that John Key would approve of racism, misogyny, and all other forms of bigotry, but he is responsible.

    There you go, is that idiotic and desperate enough for you?

    Comment by sammy 3.0 — February 22, 2016 @ 8:05 am

  18. I’ll see that and raise it sammy – dare say Ritchie McCaw will now be quaking in his boots after Andrew Little issued an APB to his ‘attack dogs’ on him…

    Comment by leeharmanclark — February 22, 2016 @ 8:16 am

  19. Interesting that after your post about meta-messaging, this ‘I hate John Key’ phenomenon appears to have completely gone over your head, Danyl, I agree with you, though. It is a conspiracy, But it didn’t start with Whale Oil…

    The point here is that this did start with WhaleOil, who first posted links to the comments. And it happens to make one of his enemies look really bad. And is exactly the sort of ‘black ops’ smear he’s done before. And is totally out of character with all the other posts on the Checkpoint page. To me that’s a bunch of pretty big coincidences.

    Comment by danylmc — February 22, 2016 @ 8:16 am

  20. “As much as I can accept that this is a set-up by Whale-oil in theory, I have to remind you that there is a lamentable trail of bread-crumbs to some ‘left-leaning’ sites which suggest that a sustained and personalised meme of ‘hatred’ about John Key has characterised their strategy to attack and undermine his personal credentials to be PM.”

    I find this type of stuff disgusting and unnecessary. This is very suspicious for the reasons Danyl’s mentioned, but whether it’s genuine or a setup, it’d be blind to say there aren’t some people on “the left” who say things like this, even after filtering out the ineffeective echos about JK being slimy and untrustworthy.

    Whatever the cause I think, it’s more an element across society than “the left”. You don’t exactly have to go back too many years to find disgusting, mysogenistic comments about Helen Clark being an ugly bitch, plus many words and inferences worse than that, either. More than a few of them appeared unmoderated underneath the blogs of WhaleOil and DPF.

    Comment by izogi — February 22, 2016 @ 8:24 am

  21. John Campbell is the sweetest guy on the radio. How anyone can believe that he incited the people who left those comments is beyond me.

    Now, whaleoil, DPF and Hooton … they’ve all got form.

    Comment by mjpledger — February 22, 2016 @ 8:27 am

  22. I have never seen people calling for the rape of any daughter of a labour leader.
    You don’t see right wing people standing outside Labour Party conferences spitting and screaming at them. The list goes on but hey keep it up it’s working

    Comment by Graham — February 22, 2016 @ 8:42 am

  23. “As much as I can accept that this is a set-up by Whale-oil in theory, I have to remind you that there is a lamentable trail of bread-crumbs to some ‘left-leaning’ sites which suggest that a sustained and personalised meme of ‘hatred’ about John Key has characterised their strategy to attack and undermine his personal credentials to be PM.”

    I don’t find the types of comments acceptable at all, but whatever the cause (assuming this isn’t a setup, and I’m not convinced it isn’t), it’s short-sighted to assume this type of expression doesn’t occur right across society instead of just “the left”. It’s not necessary to go back many years to find very similar mysogenistic, hateful expression about Helen Clark. Much of it appeared underneath the blog posts of the very people trying to claim high ground today.

    [Previous comment didn’t show up — apologies if this is duped.]

    Comment by izogi — February 22, 2016 @ 8:43 am

  24. Someone hired a detective to follow Clark’s husband around and go through their rubbish bins. There was a lot of insanely toxic stuff directed at Labour when they were in govt – the process of being in govt tends to attract the crazies.

    Comment by danylmc — February 22, 2016 @ 8:44 am

  25. Also the john Campbell is a saint stuff and his fans are so sweet stuff.
    Go and have a look at the comments in the save john Campbell TV show on Facebook there were a lot of similar statements whale oil must have been busy

    Comment by Graham — February 22, 2016 @ 8:45 am

  26. Yes, I think it certainly looks as if the hatefest may well have been helped along by a few fake accounts – but there was still a hatefest by a whole lot of lefties, and I doubt Whaleoil has the time or self discipline to execute such a scam.

    The most interesting comment about is Sanctuary at 8.02am: “In NZ the debate is now so completely about the sizzle that even the grown ups have forgotten there was ever a steak.” Interestingly, Stephen Mills and I have been trying to make the politics discussion on N2N more about the steak than the sizzle. But it isn’t easy when our political “leaders” across the spectrum tend to contribute so little steak. The pathetic State of the Nation speeches across the board are a very good recent example of that.

    Comment by Matthew Hooton — February 22, 2016 @ 8:46 am

  27. Who knew that juggalos were so politically active? A new market for Crosby Textor to dog whistle to? I wonder which Insane Clown Posse song will grace a National party ad at the next election.

    Comment by Conrad — February 22, 2016 @ 8:51 am

  28. Please go on with that list, Graham. Your statement was that Andrew Little is responsible – and by implication, the opposition and their supporters in general. Feel free to back that up.

    Finding the very nastiest example and stretching it to cover everyone and everything unrelated is so absurd it’s been a comedy cliché for decades. Are you Basil Fawlty haranguing his guests? (“And that’s exactly how Nazi Germany started …”).

    The only difference between Key’s time and Clark’s is technology: new platforms, old vitriol.

    Comment by sammy 3.0 — February 22, 2016 @ 8:55 am

  29. ” Much of it [hatred of Clark] appeared underneath the blog posts of the very people trying to claim high ground today.”

    This is an interesting and valid point izogi.

    I think one of the things that has emerged over the last ‘ten years’ (sanctuary) is how blogs and attack-politics has become increasingly organised, or at least cohesive in a tendency to attract like-minded types. This phenomenon has been un-policed, and even encouraged by certain types across the political spectrum. The ‘dumbing down’ perhaps we are seeing isn’t a reflection of intelligence per se, but rather a reflection of the ease with which we can all now, just publish dumb shit. (guilty as charged).

    Danyl indicates a possible example, but I’d suggest that attempting to isolate one example and then finger-pointing about it as if it all started there, feeds into the very process one is critiquing.

    Because IMO they are all at it, and only calling it when the example provided suits one side’s political agenda is disingenuous, IF one can accept, even in theory that if it’s wrong for one side to do it, it should also be wrong for the other side to do it. I think It is unacceptable to cherry-pick outrage and dress it up as moral righteousness so I’m trying desperately to shake the habit, too.. The ‘He did it first’ mentality which is appropriate in the schoolyard, but doesn’t set the bar for acceptable political dialogue very high, in my view

    Comment by leeharmanclark — February 22, 2016 @ 9:06 am

  30. sammy 3.0

    I think a sense in which Andrew Little is responsible is that he has been part of a campaign of deliberate lies over the TPP. This campaign has made assertions that the PM has been involved in some sort of conspiracy with American corporations to kill people with more expensive medicines, prevent state schools from being favoured over American start ups, prevent the NZ parliament from being able to legislate and instead have our laws written by “secret offshore tribunals” etc etc etc.

    These lies have created a climate where some people on the left are extremely and unreasonably angry with Key. This anger is made worse by the polls being so strongly in favour of Key. John Campbell, I am sure unintentionally, has become the pin up boy for these sorts of people.

    It is very sad that an opposition party would behalf so dishonestly and fuel such anger and hatred, but the Labour Party is now under the control of people who were previously on the fringes of the Alliance.

    Comment by Matthew Hooton — February 22, 2016 @ 9:12 am

  31. I’ve never seen anyone calling for the rape of any politician’s daughter. There was a song where the singer sang that he wanted to have sex with John Key’s daughter – it was a song – we don’t even know if what he sang was what he thought.

    On the other hand John Key named some models, on air, that he would like to have sex with.

    In both cases, I find it demeaning to the women.

    Comment by mjpledger — February 22, 2016 @ 9:17 am

  32. mjpledger

    The song was about killing the PM and having sex with his daughter. I think in the context “sex” really means “rape” don’t you?
    Also, the singer also wanted to rape the PM’s son: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11370079

    I don’t recall the PM saying he wanted to have sex with any super models. I do remember him saying he thought some super models were hot. I don’t see it is demeaning to say a super model is hot. Saying a super model is hot is like saying Eleanor Catton is a good writer: its more an obvious point.

    I can say that as a previous sufferer of Clark Derangement Syndrome, political rhetoric can get out of hand in groupthink situations (like blogs, twitter etc). But with CDS, she was doing things like overruling the courts on the foreshore and seabed, promoting the Electoral Finance Bill, calling people cancerous and corrosive. With Key, I find it difficult to see why people get so worked up. From my perspective, he doesn’t really do anything, anything at all, except smile and wave.

    Comment by Matthew Hooton — February 22, 2016 @ 9:25 am

  33. @Matthew Hooton
    If you wanted the correct information to get to the people then you should have released the TPP documents to everyone not just the politicians and American corporations.

    Your exageration of what is being said by Jane Kelsey is nearly true. American drug corporations will have a greater control over drug delivery in NZ thanks to the TPPA. American corporate charter chains – the gulens and KIPPs – will be able to go to the MoE and ask to be considered to start a charter school and the MoE has very little recourse, NZ legislature will have to think twice about what laws it makes in case they are taken to an off-shore tribunal and taken to the cleaners.

    Labour have finally come out against the TPPA and all I can say is – about frigging time.

    Comment by mjpledger — February 22, 2016 @ 9:27 am

  34. As a few people on have Twitter pointed out already, RNZ would deal with trolling more effectively if their funding was boosted. But David Farrar’s response to this – a response which made absolutely no sense – was that after this episode, RNZ should have its funding cut!

    Comment by Alex — February 22, 2016 @ 9:28 am

  35. Okay in fairness though, the flag debate has been remarkably polarising, and has generated a huge volume of online engagement – the likes of which simply isn’t seen with other issues. The TPP didn’t result in this much online debate, neither did Labour’s Chinese sounding names release, not even ponytailgate did. While I wouldn’t discount the astroturf theory, it is possible that people have been fired up to comment on the flag where they simply wouldn’t have otherwise. (Source – I run the Newstalk ZB online team and there has been a hell of a lot of comment moderation around the flag debate – nothing remotely approaching death threats against the PM though)

    Comment by awbraae — February 22, 2016 @ 9:28 am

  36. “As a few people on have Twitter pointed out already, RNZ would deal with trolling more effectively if their funding was boosted.”

    It looks like Radio NZ has done some serious moderation as of last night or this morning. Maybe after the weekend when a staffer came back to work after all this began on Friday night? Or was it earlier than that?

    Where does one draw the line between holding Radio NZ resposible for hosting a Facebook page which allows anyone and everyone to post hateful threats, compared with holding Facebook responsible for allowing anyone and everyone to post hateful threats on a Facebook page?

    Comment by izogi — February 22, 2016 @ 9:33 am

  37. @Matthew Hooton
    I actually don’t know what the intent of that statement is because I am not the person who wrote the lyrics. I do know that men find it incredibly disturbing when their daughters have sex, especially sex with people they don’t like. And because the singer didn’t say rape than I take it the way he said it.

    I don’t have the transcript in front of me but I remember it as more than what you say John Key said. But even so, a middle aged man, saying over the radio that he finds a number of young women “hot” is demeaning to those women because he related to them in terms of his sexual preferences not as real people. If he had said they were models who were good at their job that would be different.

    Comment by mjpledger — February 22, 2016 @ 9:42 am

  38. With Key, I find it difficult to see why people get so worked up. From my perspective, he doesn’t really do anything, anything at all, except smile and wave.

    He’s pretty obnoxious in the House. Like, worse than almost any other MP I’ve ever seen.

    Comment by danylmc — February 22, 2016 @ 9:43 am

  39. the flag debate has been remarkably polarising

    We’ve been getting some advice on making changes to the exterior of our apartment building.

    What people have said is that sort of project all goes fine up til it comes to choosing the colour and then it gets very heated. All the other choices tend to go smoothly.

    Very few flags get choosing via public consultation and these days no govt would get away with such a change without public involvement.

    But it is the sort of issue of personal taste that isn’t suited to public debate.

    Comment by NeilM — February 22, 2016 @ 9:57 am

  40. This is exactly the crap the Oily One would pull. I know because he has done it to two education pages I participate it. He smeared a prominent principal, an education blogger and myself and called his posse in to do it. Their hate speech was disgusting, lies and defamatory. Their attacks were personal and ill informed on the actual issues. They were trolls in the extreme. And why did he put his attack dogs on us? Because we are activists against the current education GERM policies the National led government are following.

    Comment by Melulater — February 22, 2016 @ 9:58 am

  41. Sure, mjpledger, you often hear people saying “I want to kill him and then have consensual sex with his daughter and rape his son”. And when they do we should definitely assume they mean the sex with the daughter to be consensual.

    Plus, I don’t think that saying that 50-year-old Liz Hurley, 34-year-old Jessica Alba or 40-year-old Angelina Jolie are hot is offensive at all, certainly not to them, and definitely not in the same category as a singer saying they want to kill the PM, have sex with his daughter and rape his son.

    It doesn’t make sense for you to try to defend someone just because they also don’t like John Key. Your comparisons are odious and demonstrate exactly the Key Derangement Syndrome that is leading to hate filled politics in NZ at present.

    Comment by Matthew Hooton — February 22, 2016 @ 9:59 am

  42. “But with CDS, she was doing things like overruling the courts on the foreshore and seabed … calling people cancerous and corrosive.”

    remarkable. Clark called Brash’s politcs cancerous and corrosive, IIRC, at around the time of the F&SA and the Civil Unions bill. You were volunteering in Brash’s office at the time, no?

    Was it Brash’s position that Clark’s F&S policy went too far in overruling the court, or not far enough? And there was letter sent over his name to the ChCh Church saying Brash wouldn’t speak in a place Clark had spoken because of her, ahem, lack of commitment to the institution of marriage.

    Comment by Pascal's bookie — February 22, 2016 @ 10:01 am

  43. Pascal’s bookie: No.

    Comment by Matthew Hooton — February 22, 2016 @ 10:04 am

  44. OK I must have imagined that billboard oustide my office window for weeks on end, my mistake.

    Comment by Pascal's bookie — February 22, 2016 @ 10:09 am

  45. Pascal’s bookie: What billboard? What are you talking about? I never worked in Brash’s office. On F&S I worked for the other side: the Treaty Tribes Coalition.

    Comment by Matthew Hooton — February 22, 2016 @ 10:13 am

  46. It was a big old Iwi/Kiwi thing.

    It had a picture of Clark and Brash from memory. It seemed to suggest that Labour was giving all the beaches to Maori and Brash would not do that. Would have been before the 2005 election, I thought you were volunteering for him then, but if not, I withdraw that part.

    Still though was Brash’s (and English before him) policy that Labour went too far, or not far enough re ‘over-ruling the courts on F&S’?

    Comment by Pascal's bookie — February 22, 2016 @ 10:20 am

  47. “Ritchie McCaw will now be quaking in his boots after Andrew Little issued an APB to his ‘attack dogs’ on him…”

    Ironically that’s exactly the false equivalence that accusing ‘the left’ of being nasty is designed to achieve. The vassals of this govt have tried to portray dirty politics in those terms since they were revealed. No accident them going after Campbell either – now about the only reliably oppositional media remaining. And what a surprise that Slater and Farrar’s favourite anti-semitism should be the vector, though Hooton is also laying on the sexism angle here.

    It’s nasty and disingenuous, and no good for the health of our political discourse.

    Comment by Sacha — February 22, 2016 @ 10:22 am

  48. Key’s time in office has been characterized by a string of playground insults directed at his opponents, or even mild critics (“knuckleheads”, “henchmen”, “muppets”, “backing rapists”, etc, etc). Not just for politicians – if you step out of line at all (Castle-Hughes, Catton) it gets personal very fast.

    Back when we had a functioning media and competent opposition, people would have remembered these things. But we haven’t, so they don’t.

    Comment by sammy 3.0 — February 22, 2016 @ 10:25 am

  49. Pascal’s bookie, it you read your holy texts more closely you will see I fell out with Brash over the race stuff.

    Comment by Matthew Hooton — February 22, 2016 @ 10:27 am

  50. Ironically that’s exactly the false equivalence that accusing ‘the left’ of being nasty is designed to achieve. The vassals of this govt have tried to portray dirty politics in those terms since they were revealed.

    Maybe the right are trying to portray the left as paranoid.

    Comment by unaha-closp — February 22, 2016 @ 10:34 am

  51. @Matthew Hooten,

    Is that an admission that “The Hollow Men” was correct in its content?

    Comment by Flashing Light — February 22, 2016 @ 10:34 am

  52. Went in there now and found this “RNZ Hi all. We’ve just removed about 100 objectionable comments from this thread, and we are sorry for any offence caused by a number of the comments. If you would like to read up on RNZ’s comments policy, you can find it here. http://rnztalk.nz/faq” so think RNZ got trolled at 7:03 on 21/2 – they also appear to have removed the dpf and Matthew Hooton comments too which would suggest that they were part of the comment stream.

    Comment by Lucy — February 22, 2016 @ 10:41 am

  53. Lucy: I didn’t make any comments on the RNZ Facebook page.

    Comment by Matthew Hooton — February 22, 2016 @ 10:59 am

  54. Was it Mr. Hooton who said leave them up?

    Not a bad idea, however I think the larger sector of the NZ voting public already knows how much hate is at the core of the compassionate left.

    After all, they’ve been doing this kind of thing on the internet for more than two decades now.

    Even if the RNZ comments were fake, and if so that is an exceptionally cowardly act, they are pretty much typical of a lot of stuff the left do write.

    As long as they keep doing it they’re actually doing the country a favour, in that they enable NZers to see the left in their true colours and therefore far less attractive as a voting choice.

    “Don’t reply to Redbaiter. He’s a disease we don’t need to feed.”

    Comment left by Steve Withers on the Standard blog over the weekend.

    Comment by Redbaiter — February 22, 2016 @ 11:21 am

  55. I’d be surprised if Slater had the self control to wait 3 days in order to let the plot thicken.

    It does look suspicious though.

    But having any doubt about their genuineness is telling in itself. Although a cheap shot – like pointing to The Standard and claiming that’s the Left.

    Personally I think the problem with left wing discourse is more subtle than the relatively small number making highly offensive comments. I think it has more to do with the unwillingness to connect with the general public.

    The high minded disregard as evidenced by the beach towel thing. Oh my god! A beach towel – those suburban philistines and their beach towel taste.

    Comment by NeilM — February 22, 2016 @ 11:34 am

  56. Hooton said
    Sure, mjpledger, you often hear people saying “I want to kill him and then have consensual sex with his daughter and rape his son”. And when they do we should definitely assume they mean the sex with the daughter to be consensual.

    Plus, I don’t think that saying that 50-year-old Liz Hurley, 34-year-old Jessica Alba or 40-year-old Angelina Jolie are hot is offensive at all, certainly not to them, and definitely not in the same category as a singer saying they want to kill the PM, have sex with his daughter and rape his son.

    ~~~
    I don’t know what was going on in his head. He sang about having sex with the daughter. It was a song. Someone wrote the lyrics, possibly not even the singer. Do I really think he wants to kill the PM? No. Do I think he really wants to have sex with the daughter? No. Or rape the son? No. It’s a performance. Do I agree with the sentiment? Of course not. Do I think the sentiment should be allowed, especially in the artistic sphere? That’s a really big question.

    How do you know it’s not offensive to these women? Or other women listening to some random middle age man talking about what women he thinks are hot. Sounds like mansplaining to me.

    Comment by mjpledger — February 22, 2016 @ 12:09 pm

  57. Something doesn’t seem to add up, if the unusually large amount of abuse happened on the Checkpoint FB page is anything to go by.

    I can smell the crocodile tears from a distance. It’s evocative of those who usually whine about the “Gay mafia” and the “misandrist feminazis”, and then cynically become loud defenders of gay & womens’ rights if the perps happen to be black/brown/red/yellow/what-have-you.

    Comment by Kumara Republic (@kumararepublic) — February 22, 2016 @ 1:01 pm

  58. I must be saying something that causes my comments to get stuck in a mod queue. Hopefully this isn’t duped.

    “Something doesn’t seem to add up, if the unusually large amount of abuse happened on the Checkpoint FB page is anything to go by.”

    I could believe that much of the interest was a consequence of one or two communities linking to the Checkpoint interview post. Sometimes that just happens on the internet, plus it’s not unusual to see people venting specifically about John Key when complaining about the government. He’s used as a marketing figurehead in many respects, who’s out there to draw attention and encourage every argument to be about himself instead of about policy, and government detractors fall for it.

    But, as Danyl pointed out…. people like “Tim Wikidclownz”?? (Now deleted from Facebook.)

    Whatever the source they came from, one or more people were very likely going to extra effort creating fake Facebook accounts, specifically for the purpose of posting excessively vulgar comments.

    Comment by izogi — February 22, 2016 @ 1:30 pm

  59. mjpledger, you got me. I cannot speak for Liz Hurley, Jessica Alba or Angelina Jolie. But if they are people who find being called hot offensive then that is very sad, because it would be like a surgeon being offended by the sight of blood. If you are a supermodel then one of the things that will happen is that people from around the world will say you are hot, sexy, extremely good looking and so forth. I would expect this would be a sign of success in that industry. To avoid it, the women mentioned could have gone into corporate finance, nursing, teaching, law or something else.

    Comment by Matthew Hooton — February 22, 2016 @ 1:36 pm

  60. izogi: Yep, a common red flag of sock-puppeteering is how many of the commenters only make 1 post for a particular topic, and then are never seen again.

    Comment by Kumara Republic (@kumararepublic) — February 22, 2016 @ 2:08 pm

  61. @Matthew Hooton “But if they are people who find being called hot offensive then that is very sad…”

    Not all that heart-breaking, surely ? I can think of sadder things …

    Comment by swordfish — February 22, 2016 @ 2:22 pm

  62. Any pretence you had of being sane Danyl is gone with this post , vanished without a trace .
    Unbelievable .
    You really don’t know how the internet works do you old fella

    Comment by Peter J — February 22, 2016 @ 2:52 pm

  63. Some right winger seems to have taken over sanctuary’s account ( “let’s take some utu against journalists who don’t support us when we win” ) so anything can happen

    Comment by rayinnz — February 22, 2016 @ 2:58 pm

  64. Rainbow tables have been of marginal significance for a while now.

    If I was less cynical I’d say there was enough here to start an investigation, seems like botnets might be involved and they are pretty serious (100+ counts of computer fraud anyone?)

    Comment by Korakys — February 22, 2016 @ 3:23 pm

  65. @ Hoots. “Pascal’s bookie, it you read your holy texts more closely you will see I fell out with Brash over the race stuff.”

    Good for you. Did you go the full Quin and do it public, ow was it more of a slide quesitky out the door and still be public in support of Brash as the Next PM but just no longer offer active support behind the scenes?

    But anyway, that’s a fairly trivial point, I’m not that interested in you*, I’m interested whether Brash’s policy (and English’s before him) was that Labour went too far, or not far enough re ‘over-ruling the courts on F&S’?

    I only brought that up coz I thought you’d know seeing you were right there. It turns out you were so close it made you leave. but develope full blown ‘Brash derangement syndrome’. So was it more a ‘racist as but tax cuts’ kinda thing?

    Comment by Pascal's bookie — February 22, 2016 @ 5:31 pm

  66. In the spirit of the beginning of the University year and in acknowledgement of M Hooton’s recent stellar academic record, I think Pascal’s Bookie’s contribution to this thread is at best a C minus and M J Pledger a flat out fail. Neither appear to have an understanding of their source material and their analysis appears to be driven by a set of (poorly) preconceived ideas.

    Comment by Tinakori — February 22, 2016 @ 5:51 pm

  67. Trained by the experts in false flag operations in Israel.

    Perfec’.

    Comment by the pigman — February 22, 2016 @ 8:27 pm

  68. It’s not that hard, type the names in the original Whaleoil post screen shots into your Facebook search box and enjoy.

    Comment by DRF — February 22, 2016 @ 9:52 pm

  69. Matthew @ 30:

    “… prevent the NZ parliament from being able to legislate and instead have our laws…”

    Okay, one of my big objections to the TPPA has been around that issue, Matthew. Can you explain how in fact it makes no difference to NZ parliament’s ability to legislate?

    Comment by steve — February 22, 2016 @ 10:09 pm

  70. there’s no such thing as wrong questions Tinakori.

    I’m only wondering why, if Hooton was driven to derangement by Clark’s position on the FSA whether Brash’s (and English’s before him) was better or worse. He doesn’t really answer, and only assures me that he fell out with Brash over it all.

    I don’t recall any public falling out, any Phil Quin style renouncing of the party or anything like that at all. I could have missed it tough, which is why I asked. I haven’t actually read the book from that time, which is why I keep saying this is from my memory, and so on.

    I do remember after that election though, that Hooton was urging Brash to not recognise the new govt, after Brash failed to form a coalition. That was in public, so I’m just wondering how deep this falling out went, seeing he brought it up. It looks like the falling out was not all that deep. Which be odd if it were the case that Brash’s position on the FSA was worse than the one that drove him to derangement with Clark.

    Comment by Pascal's bookie — February 22, 2016 @ 10:18 pm

  71. I’d venture that that a host of Gamergate-style shell accounts haven’t been created in this instance (ie: they’re real people) but I’d also venture that the weird mix of commenters that turned up here haven’t made Checkpoint’s Facebook page their regular haunt (ie: they’re not a reflection of the mainstream of RNZ listeners, let alone the left).

    The key here is the 782 shares the video’s received since 18 February. Anti-John Key groups, activist groups and plenty of individuals with sizeable public followings of their own. This is the reality of having content go viral, and being prepared to moderate when people pile on to it – both of which are relatively new experiences for RNZ as it starts ushering out video content.

    Comment by Joan Unweek — February 22, 2016 @ 10:46 pm

  72. It looks like the falling out was not all that deep.

    Deep down he was really shallow? With Michael Bassett taking credit for the worst of Brash’s racist bilge, and John “Kiwi-Iwi” Ansell guiding his diffident hand when “posting” on Kiwiblog, the poor old duffer must have felt reduced to a bystander while a host of pygmy demons squabbled for his tiny soul.

    Comment by Joe W — February 22, 2016 @ 11:24 pm

  73. So getting. Back to the post it’s a right wing conspiracy. It was whale oil who threw the dildo at waitangi . He then tried to fire bomb ann Tolly’s office along with handing out abusive banners on the 4th February and encouraging abusive chants of john key in the protest. He also threw something at jerry brownle because anyone that is anti john key is a cool peace loving person

    Comment by Graham — February 23, 2016 @ 7:16 am

  74. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, Graham.

    Comment by leeharmanclark — February 23, 2016 @ 8:04 am

  75. Hi Graham.

    You missed one: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11590284

    Comment by Pascal's bookie — February 23, 2016 @ 8:07 am

  76. So whale oil is now committing burglaries as well

    Comment by Graham — February 23, 2016 @ 10:08 am

  77. Where was whale oil when the rena grounded?
    Maybe the police should watch this master criminal 24/7 and all our crime will stop

    Comment by Graham — February 23, 2016 @ 10:10 am

  78. Wasn’t Slater giving kids cancer until Jesse Ryder knocked him out?

    Comment by Joe W — February 23, 2016 @ 10:17 am

  79. So I see we have almost a retraction from danyl now will all other here now say sorry to whale oil

    Comment by Graham — February 23, 2016 @ 10:35 am

  80. Maybe the police should watch this master criminal 24/7 and all our crime will stop

    Nah – just attempts to hack into the system of rival blogsites. And maybe the odd breach of suppression orders along the way.

    Comment by Flashing Light — February 23, 2016 @ 10:37 am

  81. So I see we have almost a retraction from danyl now will all other here now say sorry to whale oil

    The moment he apologises for calling Judd Hall a “feral” I will fall on bended knees and beg his forgiveness.

    Comment by Flashing Light — February 23, 2016 @ 10:40 am

  82. Sanctuary

    Please don’t bugger up metaphors. It’s ‘sizzle and sausage’ not sizzle and steak.

    How can anyone take anything you say seriously?

    Comment by Adolf Fiinkensein — February 23, 2016 @ 12:37 pm

  83. “Where was whale oil when the rena grounded?”

    That was no reef, your honour!

    Comment by Sacha — February 23, 2016 @ 1:13 pm

  84. Please don’t bugger up metaphors. It’s ‘sizzle and sausage’ not sizzle and steak.

    “Don’t sell the steak; sell the sizzle. It is the sizzle that sells the steak and not the cow, although the cow is, of course, mighty important.” – Elmer Wheeler

    Comment by Gregor W — February 23, 2016 @ 1:53 pm

  85. Matthew “Zodiac Killer” Hatton outdoes himself again.

    Comment by Johnny — February 23, 2016 @ 5:33 pm

  86. @ Matthew Hooton — February 22, 2016 9:12 am

    ” …a sense in which Andrew Little is responsible is that he has been part of a campaign of deliberate lies… It is very sad that an opposition party would [behave] so dishonestly…”

    If Little’s part in deliberate lies is somehow despicable and a political party behaving dishonestly is sad, can you point out your public statements condemning the deliberate lies of John Key (deliberate and personal not as part of some other activity), and your pronouncements about the dishonesty of a recent Minister of Justice too.

    You say you find it difficult to see why people get so worked up about Key. He doesn’t just smile – he lies as well. I get worked up that people find that acceptable. I get worked up that people like yourself in all sorts of political forums tolerate that. I get worked up about you having the gall to expect Andrew Little to tell the truth.

    Comment by poled — February 23, 2016 @ 5:51 pm

  87. Many of these hate based posts will come from right wing trolls aligned to either Whaleoil or Kiwiblog.
    And its simply because John Campbell is a popular journalist whose many stories are not pro government or based on biased commentary or mistruths.
    What better way than to shut down your opponent than to taint him in a negative light.
    The same thing happened to silence Phil Goff after the ChristChurch earthquakes when he questioned why an Israeli citizen died who had in their possession 5 different passports.
    Que Slater and a smear campaign that silenced Goff.

    Comment by Marcus — February 23, 2016 @ 6:34 pm

  88. By the way Graham, it seems chemtrails and fluoridated water mind-control people to vote for the likes of Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn.

    Comment by Kumara Republic — February 24, 2016 @ 12:49 am

  89. poled: I think I have attacked the current government’s dishonesty plenty of times; e.g. on Monday on Nine to Noon over Official Information Act. I told NBR Radio today McCully should have been sacked for lying to the Cabinet over the Saudi sheep thing. Similarly, there has been a campaign of flagrant lying by Andrew Little and others over TPP. Everything Labour has said about TPP has turned out to be a lie.

    Comment by Matthew Hooton — February 24, 2016 @ 12:54 am

  90. Matthew Hooton said:
    mjpledger, you got me. I cannot speak for Liz Hurley, Jessica Alba or Angelina Jolie. But if they are people who find being called hot offensive then that is very sad, because it would be like a surgeon being offended by the sight of blood. If you are a supermodel then one of the things that will happen is that people from around the world will say you are hot, sexy, extremely good looking and so forth. I would expect this would be a sign of success in that industry. To avoid it, the women mentioned could have gone into corporate finance, nursing, teaching, law or something else.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    On wikipedia, they are all listed as actresses first, LH and JA as models second and AJ’s entry does not list that as her profession.

    I would say they have no interest in what John Key calls them because he operates in a sphere well below their notice.
    However, I would enjoy watching John Key try to say it to their faces – the first NZ prime minister to get a black eye from Brad Pitt. And if he couldn’t say it to their face then it’s obviously offensive. (I couldn’t think of any way in which he could put it so that he doesn’t come off looking super creepy.)

    With each post you keep digging yourself deeper – by saying they should take it as a compliment because of their age, that they should put up with it because it’s part of their job – you know, because modelling is all about giving men their jollies , and that it’s ok to call a model hot but not a women working in corporate finance, etc, because obviously they are different kinds of women, with different a kinds of status that means those types of comments are off-limits.

    Wow, dinosaurs still roam the earth.

    Comment by mjpledger — February 24, 2016 @ 10:00 am

  91. Wow, dinosaurs still roam the earth.

    Len Brown is still in office, so yeah.

    Comment by unaha-closp — February 24, 2016 @ 12:24 pm

  92. “I would say they have no interest in what John Key calls them because he operates in a sphere well below their notice.”

    Yes, I think that’s absolutely right.

    Comment by Matthew Hooton — February 24, 2016 @ 1:35 pm

  93. @Matthew Hooton — Feb 24 @ 12:54 am

    There you go summed it up perfectly. You made a comment about McCully and Saudi Arabia – congratulations. You ‘think’ you have ‘attacked’ the current government’s dishonesty plenty of times. Then you get emotive about a ‘campaign of flagrant lying by Andrew Little” and grandiosely claim everything Labour has said about TPP has turned out to be a lie. Everything.

    No flagrant lying from those in power. I suppose John Key’s handling of the issues around Ian Fletcher and Judith Collins ‘revelations’ about a China trip were fragrant.

    A quick rise to arms about a recent issue involving an Opposition party. They must not lie but it’s okay if you’re in Government and now that McCully is on the way out the truth can be told.

    When Key is finished in 2020 will you suddenly rise and (as part of a bio) say he had difficulties with the truth?

    Comment by poled — February 24, 2016 @ 6:04 pm

  94. I see the standard has referenced this post as evidence the emails were all faked but neglected to update it since.

    Comment by Cliff Clavin — February 24, 2016 @ 8:29 pm

  95. What did you expect?? John Campbell brings truth in everything he says and gets answers listeners want to hear. Campbell live was a hot show now we got idiots on there. It’s ridiculous and money wasting shows!!

    Comment by Samantha Nepe — February 25, 2016 @ 9:37 pm


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