The Dim-Post

July 14, 2016

Nah

Filed under: Uncategorized — danylmc @ 1:47 pm

I don’t think we’re living in a ‘post truth’ age because technology (like, how many people believed The Protocols of the Elders of Zion?) but I do like that the Guardian column mooting the idea opened with a take-down of the David Cameron pig smear, because almost every left-wing activist I see on social media bemoaning the horrid lies of the right also seems to perpetuate the ‘Cameron fucked a pig’ lie every few hours.

25 Comments »

  1. A “yeah” to go with your “nah.” I was horrified to read about Sandy Hook Truthers, who contact the parents of children who were shot at that school and tell them that they never actually had children and the story is all an elaborate government plot to discredit gun owners. Then there’s Donald Trump’s limp wristed gesture of dismissal which apparently automatically negates any challenge to the veracity of his statements. Not to mention the home grown version of post-truthhere.

    Comment by McNulty — July 14, 2016 @ 2:19 pm

  2. re cameron/pig – charlie brooker did it better anyway

    Comment by framu — July 14, 2016 @ 2:24 pm

  3. I heard part of the RNZ story. What I thought was missing was an impartial view of the accuracy of media stories. Because, obviously, if they were all accurate RNZ wouldn’t be broadcasting Mediawatch every week. So on the whole I didn’t think Dita DeBoni had a very strong argument for anything.

    Comment by Robert Singers — July 14, 2016 @ 2:39 pm

  4. Comes under the heading of ‘Canutes’, when somebody is really only famous for one thing, which isn’t actually true.

    David Mellor, the UK Tory Minister, is a classic example. We all know what he did, because it’s awesome, even though he didn’t.

    Comment by sammy 3.0 — July 14, 2016 @ 2:51 pm

  5. So on the whole I didn’t think Dita DeBoni had a very strong argument for anything. Nice straw man argument. She is not saying the media don’t make mistakes, but observes that politicians don’t admit mistakes and won’t apologize for the mistakes they don’t admit making (with the notable exception of John Key’s heartfelt apology to Cameron Slater).

    Comment by McNulty — July 14, 2016 @ 3:05 pm

  6. As was said in another post-truth era: “This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.”

    Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 14, 2016 @ 4:17 pm

  7. “another post-truth era”

    Could it be that we’re not so much in the “post-truth era” as that there never was a “truth era”?

    Comment by Ortvin Sarapuu — July 14, 2016 @ 4:55 pm

  8. You mean like we were never at war with EurAsia?

    On which, the BBC are putting up an Orwell statue outside their building. Not sure if that is a warning to BBC renegades or a reminder to news editors

    Comment by insider — July 14, 2016 @ 5:24 pm

  9. L’epoch post vérité n’a pas eu lieu.

    Comment by NeilM — July 14, 2016 @ 5:50 pm

  10. Could it be that we’re not so much in the “post-truth era” as that there never was a “truth era”?

    That was a point I was grasping towards, yes.

    Comment by Andrew Geddis — July 14, 2016 @ 6:55 pm

  11. If you want a local comparison to the lies that were told about leaving the eu look at the rubbish that was doing the rounds here about the tppa from so called celebs , politicians and this gem from a self professed authority https://twitter.com/felixmarwick/status/694975017692495872

    Comment by Cliff Clavin — July 14, 2016 @ 7:27 pm

  12. You have to wonder how many people actually believed the pig story, and whether it had any real effect on Cameron.

    Comment by Gareth Wilson — July 14, 2016 @ 8:14 pm

  13. @Gareth: I think it was only believed among people who had already made up their mind never to vote for Cameron, or any other Tory candidate for that matter.

    Comment by Ortvin Sarapuu — July 14, 2016 @ 8:38 pm

  14. A local example of the same, There are still people on the standard who believe John Key did sign the H Fee documents.

    Comment by insider — July 14, 2016 @ 8:47 pm

  15. Oh, if we’re going for local examples we’ll be here forever. The very essence of Key’s political appeal is that fun beats facts.

    Comment by sammy 3.0 — July 14, 2016 @ 9:19 pm

  16. You have to wonder how many people actually believed the pig story, and whether it had any real effect on Cameron.

    The story was so lazily concocted it even followed the basic storyline of an episode of the British TV show Black Mirror in which, you guessed it, the PM fucks a pig!

    Comment by Gregor W — July 14, 2016 @ 10:12 pm

  17. I don’t think we’re living in a ‘post truth’ age because technology…

    I go back and forth on this. On the one hand we’re still the same species as before we invented the written form but on the other I keep thinking developments in communication technology have had unexpected effects on social organisation.

    I don’t think language was developed to ascertain the truth, rather to convince (firstly ones self and then others). So it’s not a surprise there’s a continuity of strangeness from The Protocols through to Twitter. But then the vastly increased ability to ostentatiously display that social media provides might just be leading to alliances between groups of personality types that hadn’t been possible before.

    Comment by NeilM — July 14, 2016 @ 10:45 pm

  18. “The story was so lazily concocted it even followed the basic storyline of an episode of the British TV show Black Mirror”

    Did it? I don’t remember anybody kidnapping a Priness

    Comment by Ortvin Sarapuu — July 14, 2016 @ 10:49 pm

  19. I guess you can be a pedant if you like, Ortvin.
    But apart from the dramatic set up / kidnapped princess as plot device, the story was basically about the PM being publicly humiliated via a sexual act with a swine.

    Comment by Gregor W — July 15, 2016 @ 12:10 am

  20. The kidnapped princess wasn’t really a detail, though, it was the impetus for the whole plot.

    I’d say there was no substantial similarity between the two stories except that they both involved pig fucking Prime Ministers. It’s like saying King Lear and Macbeth have the same “basic storyline” because they both involve a King losing his throne.

    Comment by Ortvin Sarapuu — July 15, 2016 @ 12:31 am

  21. almost every left-wing activist I see on social media bemoaning the horrid lies of the right also seems to perpetuate the ‘Cameron fucked a pig’ lie every few hours

    I’d say there’s a few left wing activists here – you might even be one! – yet I haven’t seen the words pigs and Cameron used in the same sentence.

    As someone more famous than me once said: Exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement.

    Comment by Ross — July 15, 2016 @ 7:00 am

  22. Porkies?

    Comment by Neil Miller — July 15, 2016 @ 7:06 pm

  23. So on the whole I didn’t think Dita DeBoni had a very strong argument for anything. Nice straw man argument. She is not saying the media don’t make mistakes, but observes that politicians don’t admit mistakes and won’t apologize for the mistakes they don’t admit making (with the notable exception of John Key’s heartfelt apology to Cameron Slater).

    Comment by McNulty

    I said nothing about “mistakes”.

    Comment by Robert Singers — July 16, 2016 @ 10:36 pm

  24. Agree with #7, we can’t be post truth as there never was a truth.

    “We all know that truth is elusive, especially when it comes to interpreting human events. But acknowledging that would weaken the mainstream media’s authority. We wouldn’t trust the media as much. And ultimately, authority, not truth, is what the media sell us. Frequently, even usually, the two coincide. But every time the media are embarrassed about being shown wrong, we see how important authority is to them. It is vital to the media’s “value proposition” that we believe the motto they all have in common: “If you read it here, you can trust it because we get things right.”

    http://www.kmworld.com/Articles/Column/David-Weinberger/Truth-vs.-authority-15163.aspx

    So media and politicians owe their position, like the Pope, to infallibility, but they fail, badly: https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/nz-facing-crisis-distrust-faith-in-mps-plummeting-new-study

    And since we have the Internet to see this, their position is weakened. Like a lot of the old centralised model of manufacturing, truth is something we’re going to have to do for ourselves, not necessarily alone, but neither by deferring to legacy authorities who have reached the end of their capability.

    Comment by Hamish MacEwan — July 17, 2016 @ 9:58 am

  25. “I don’t think we’re living in a ‘post truth’ age because technology ”

    Perhaps that’s why the, err. elite didn’t see the Brexit vote coming: they were reassured by the noises made by the press & media. Whereas the average woman in the street, while lacking a detailed knowledge of how the EU works, nonetheless has a good sense of how corrupt, expensive and undemocratic it is from stories and examples over the years. Plus, you know: Greece.

    You are correct about everyone’s blind spot. Many of the remainers were saying “But: jobs! Economics! Togetherness” Whilst that woman in the street sees: the French referendum, the Irish Referenda, the Dutch Referendum, Swedish rape statistics, so-called refugees wishing to flee France for the UK (really, WTF is that about), the ECJ overriding the deportation of undesirables, non-Euro UK contributions to Euro-country bailouts IN SPITE of Cameron’s assurances that they wouldn’t be paying. Etc. The “truthyness” of the EU as bad, passes the smell test for most people. The EU as the savior of jobs in Britain, in the light of the situation in Greece, Italy, Spain & Portugal (and the EU inability to do anything about it), not so much…

    Comment by Clunking Fist — July 23, 2016 @ 3:15 pm


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